Have you ever been criticized by others for being Calvinists?

theseed · May 15, 2004

Have you ever been critized by others for thinking that God only choses some people to redeem form himself, and not all?

I imagine that some of my fellow S. Baptist fellows would not agree with that, even though, they believe OSAS. So I imagine if I shared my convictions, I would recieve criticism from some. However, i would point out that it is the SBC stance, and the traditional stance of the SBC, and the SBC big whigs.

One blessing though, about being Baptist, is that we believe that only God is Lord of the conscience, and we don't have to agree on every doctrine. Because we are all priestly believers.

Bulldog · May 15, 2004

Have you ever been critized by others for thinking that God only choses some people to redeem form himself, and not all?

Yes sir.

Gabriel · May 15, 2004

Yes, but I don't let it bother me. Something we need to remember is that God is sovereign. If He wanted them to understand it right now, they would. Nothing we say or do will convince them until He wants them to understand.

I was saved when I was in first grade. I was a Baptist Arminian until I was 31. No one ever told me about Reformed theology. I am as stubborn as they come and never like to admit I am wrong. Furthermore, I hate change. Can you imagine the struggle it was for me to change my whole theology? Suprise, it took about 5 minutes. Someone opened up their bible and pointed out Ephesians 1:4-14. God opened my heart and the beautiful truth poured in. Now I see it in every other verse. After all it is apparent throughout for those whom God has revealed it to. Don't sweat them. God has plans for them and they will understand in His time.

LynneClomina · May 15, 2004

yes, almost all the time. i know much of the leadership in my church is calvy, but for some reason it isnt explicitly taught, so much of the congregation gets alot of their theological ideas from books.... and of course, they are convinced they are right and i'm whacko.

Cal · May 15, 2004

I always look at the criticism Jesus took for being and preaching the same:

And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. JOH 6:65-66

theseed · May 15, 2004

Gabriel said:
Yes, but I don't let it bother me. Something we need to remember is that God is sovereign. If He wanted them to understand it right now, they would. Nothing we say or do will convince them until He wants them to understand.

That does not mean we should take a passive approach, Christ told us to make disciples of all nations. So, our teaching could be the way God opens somone's mind.

We are warned against thinking about fatalism in Romans 9, and God still holds us responsible for everthing thing we do--even though he is Soveriegn Lord.

Gabriel · May 15, 2004

I never said to be passive. Teach and preach the Word, but to constantly engage in debate with the stiff necked is a waste of time.

II Paradox II · May 15, 2004

theseed said:
Have you ever been critized by others for thinking that God only choses some people to redeem form himself, and not all?

I don't tend to get a lot of it, but I see a lot of it around. Holding to any sort of predestinarian scheme will definitely not win you many friends.

ken

oworm · May 15, 2004

Gabriel said:
....................... but to constantly engage in debate with the stiff necked is a waste of time.

Yes, and it usually ends up in a heated war of words in which there are no winners.

theseed · May 15, 2004

Gabriel said:
I never said to be passive. Teach and preach the Word, but to constantly engage in debate with the stiff necked is a waste of time.

yes, we should avoid "vain babblings"

Beoga · May 16, 2004

i usually get a lot of-
what is calvinism and arminianism? or what is reformed theology?
but from the people who know the difference (like 4 people that i know), i get a lot of flack for believing in it.

Knight · May 17, 2004

Criticized? No. Questioned? Yes.

I can't say as I've ever outright convinced someone of the truth of RT. (As someone already said, that's God's job) I have, I think, given people cause to think.

Bottom Line:
If you study Theology enough then at some point you're going to have to deal with the concept of predestination. The Bible plainly teaches it. You may arrive at different conclusions based on any presuppositions but you will have to deal with it.

Donny_B · May 17, 2004

The WCF states "the doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care" and I think this is where many have failed in proclaiming it and thus have offended some. Peter said that certain things that Paul proclaimed in his epistles were "hard to be understood":

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. II Peter 3:15-17

...and I think the mystery of predestination is one of them. We shouldn't be arrogant in proclaiming it, and it shouldn't be used in such a way as to hinder the spreading of the Gospel and offend other believers. We should proclaim it rather in such a way as to give comfort and assurance to the believer.

theseed · May 17, 2004

Knight said:
Criticized? No. Questioned? Yes.

I can't say as I've ever outright convinced someone of the truth of RT. (As someone already said, that's God's job) I have, I think, given people cause to think.

Bottom Line:
If you study Theology enough then at some point you're going to have to deal with the concept of predestination. The Bible plainly teaches it. You may arrive at different conclusions based on any presuppositions but you will have to deal with it.

Yes you do.

Knight · May 18, 2004

Here's a related question.....

Why is it that some people feel the need to attack RT at every and any opportunity. I've seen this recently and it always seems to be in one direction. Meaning you rarely see a Calvinist "attack" an Arminist for his/her beliefs. I say rarely only because I have never seen it. I'm quite sure that it has happened. It just seems rather one-sided lately.

BBAS 64 · May 18, 2004

Good Day, All

Attacked personally no, being a infant Calvinist can be hard with in the church I now attend. The Calvinist Doctrine of TULIP is often put on display and incorrectly understood and explained.

Most people can not understand the real differnce between Hyper and the true Biblical Doctrines of Calvinism. I do not take them as attacks, more like a lack of understanding and a leaning towards one's own traditions and the inabilty to deal with the issuse in an honest manner.

For His Glory Alone!

Bill

P.S- Where is Don?

Cal · May 18, 2004

Knight said:
Here's a related question.....

Why is it that some people feel the need to attack RT at every and any opportunity. I've seen this recently and it always seems to be in one direction. Meaning you rarely see a Calvinist "attack" an Arminist for his/her beliefs. I say rarely only because I have never seen it. I'm quite sure that it has happened. It just seems rather one-sided lately.

I think it is as John Owen so aptly put it. Sin is so great in man that he will not be removed as sovereign, he will rule!

Knight · May 18, 2004

BBAS 64 said:
P.S- Where is Don?

No clue but I heard that he got fed up with the attitudes of some people here and left for awhile.

I can definately understand his feelings.....

II Paradox II · May 18, 2004

Knight said:
Meaning you rarely see a Calvinist "attack" an Arminist for his/her beliefs. I say rarely only because I have never seen it. I'm quite sure that it has happened. It just seems rather one-sided lately.

You don't because there is no emotional challenge to Arminian thought. That is not meant as a slam, but in this sense: Any predestinarian system has to justify the emotionally difficult idea that ultimate justice is in some way either beyond our comprehension or less than what we would expect (I take the first option). In arminian thought, you don't have this moral/metaphysical crisis, therefore you have a much more emotionally reassuring position.

After all, seeing everyone as totally (or at least more...) free and responsible for their own decisions makes the idea of judgment go down much easier. Of course, Arminianism still has problems with justice (such as - why would God create people he knew would be in hell if He had the power not to?), but those problems are not so viscerally problematic nor so up front.

ken

Knight · May 18, 2004

I always find RT to me the more reassuring position since I'm 100% grateful that my salvation totally does NOT depend on me. I'd screw it up in a heartbeat.

It just seems that lately there are some who are taking every opportunity (or manufacturing opportunities) to take pot-shots at RT. It's sad if you ask me.....

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