Happy Hanukkah??

gadar perets · Dec 24, 2016

How is celebrating Hanukkah any different than celebrating Christmas? Christmas is founded upon the truth that the Messiah was born to save the world. Sadly, man added to that truth things that were untrue (that December 25 is his birthday, Santa Clause, etc.). Many Messianics do not celebrate Christmas because of those added things that are not true. Hanukkah is founded upon the truth of the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem. Sadly, man added to that truth things that were not true (the miracle of the oil, Hanukkiahs or nine branched menorahs to perpetuate the myth of the oil, etc.). Why do many Messianics reject Christmas on the grounds that it is associated with untruths, but they embrace Hanukkah even though it is associated with untruths?

Lulav · Dec 24, 2016

You don't believe in the miracle of the lights? Or the menorah that burned for seven days with one days worth of oil until more could be consecrated? How much different than that is it that a widow could feed someone for many days off a days worth of flour? Or feed thousands on a couple loaves of bread and a few fishes?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Dec 24, 2016

HAPPY HANUKKAH!

gadar perets · Dec 24, 2016

Lulav said:
You don't believe in the miracle of the lights? Or the menorah that burned for seven days with one days worth of oil until more could be consecrated? How much different than that is it that a widow could feed someone for many days off a days worth of flour? Or feed thousands on a couple loaves of bread and a few fishes?

The difference is that the miracle of the flour, loaves and fishes are recorded in the Bible and therefore, true. The supposed miracle of the oil is not recorded in Scripture or in Maccabees. where we get the account of the rededication of the Temple.

danny ski · Dec 24, 2016

gadar perets said:
The difference is that the miracle of the flour, loaves and fishes are recorded in the Bible and therefore, true. The supposed miracle of the oil is not recorded in Scripture or in Maccabees. where we get the account of the rededication of the Temple.

You should ignore it, then.

visionary · Dec 24, 2016

Happy Hanukkah to all who will receive this gracious wish.

Lulav · Dec 25, 2016

gadar perets said:
The difference is that the miracle of the flour, loaves and fishes are recorded in the Bible and therefore, true. The supposed miracle of the oil is not recorded in Scripture or in Maccabees. where we get the account of the rededication of the Temple.

There is nothing in the Bible about 'Christ Mass' either, it is based on tradition, as well as Hanukah.

The main difference is that Yeshua celebrated the dedication remembrance but never celebrated his birth.

If John is correct in the Beginning was the Word, his existence did not start at his birth or even his conception so it's a moot point to celebrate it to me.

Doesn't that lower him to a mere human level?

CherubRam · Dec 25, 2016

The story about the candles burning seven days is believable. Revelation 1:19-20.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

Lulav said:
There is nothing in the Bible about 'Christ Mass' either, it is based on tradition, as well as Hanukah.

I totally agree. I don't celebrate either.

The main difference is that Yeshua celebrated the dedication remembrance but never celebrated his birth.

He celebrated the dedication at an appropriate time. I will elaborate more in reply to post #5.

If John is correct in the Beginning was the Word, his existence did not start at his birth or even his conception so it's a moot point to celebrate it to me.

Doesn't that lower him to a mere human level?

As much as I would love to reply to this, I will restrain myself so as not to derail this thread.

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

CherubRam said:
The story about the candles burning seven days is believable. Revelation 1:19-20.
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.

Bible miracles are believable.

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

danny ski said:
You should ignore it, then.

The truth is, everyone should ignore it. In fact, no one should be "celebrating" Hanukkah in our day. The rededication of the Temple was a glorious thing and was most definitely worth celebrating by Israel prior to and during Yeshua's ministry, but what happened? The rededicated Temple that was once profaned by the Gentiles was AGAIN made "a den of thieves" by the the Jews (Jeremiah 7:11; Matthew 21:12-13). The first time the Jews turned the Temple into a "den of robbers", it (among other sins) brought the Almighty's wrath upon them. The Temple was destroyed and the Jews taken captive (Jeremiah 7:11-15). Later, they provoked the Romans into killing Yahweh's Mashiach, once again bringing His wrath upon them. The Temple was destroyed, as prophesied by Yeshua, because of the sins of Israel. The Jews were scattered and their house remains desolate.

There is no longer cause to celebrate the rededication of the Temple since the Temple is destroyed. Instead, Jews should be mourning its loss, not just one day a year, but daily. Search your souls and repent of your sins. Cry out to your Elohim to return to you, to forgive you for your part in putting His Maschiach to death, to open your eyes to behold Messiah Yeshua and to open your heart to receive him as your Savior appointed by YHWH. Thankfully, death and the grave could not hold Yeshua as prophesied in Psalm 16:10. He now lives to redeem all who call upon his name and save them from their sins, including the Jews from their sins.

danny ski · Dec 25, 2016

gadar perets said:
The truth is, everyone should ignore it. In fact, no one should be "celebrating" Hanukkah in our day. The rededication of the Temple was a glorious thing and was most definitely worth celebrating by Israel prior to and during Yeshua's ministry, but what happened? The rededicated Temple that was once profaned by the Gentiles was AGAIN made "a den of thieves" by the the Jews (Jeremiah 7:11; Matthew 21:12-13). The first time the Jews turned the Temple into a "den of robbers", it (among other sins) brought the Almighty's wrath upon them. The Temple was destroyed and the Jews taken captive (Jeremiah 7:11-15). Later, they provoked the Romans into killing Yahweh's Mashiach, once again bringing His wrath upon them. The Temple was destroyed, as prophesied by Yeshua, because of the sins of Israel. The Jews were scattered and their house remains desolate.

There is no longer cause to celebrate the rededication of the Temple since the Temple is destroyed. Instead, Jews should be mourning its loss, not just one day a year, but daily. Search your souls and repent of your sins. Cry out to your Elohim to return to you, to forgive you for your part in putting His Maschiach to death, to open your eyes to behold Messiah Yeshua and to open your heart to receive him as your Savior appointed by YHWH. Thankfully, death and the grave could not hold Yeshua as prophesied in Psalm 16:10. He now lives to redeem all who call upon his name and save them from their sins, including the Jews from their sins.

I'll tell you what, when your messiah rebuilds the Temple, brings in the universal peace and gathers up the exiles, I I'll consider your kind advice.

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

danny ski said:
I'll tell you what, when your messiah rebuilds the Temple, brings in the universal peace and gathers up the exiles, I I'll consider your kind advice.

You won't have to wait that long. You will consider Yeshua as soon as the veil of blindness spoken of in Isaiah 6:9-10 is lifted off of you and your people.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Dec 25, 2016

gadar perets said:
You won't have to wait that long. You will consider Yeshua as soon as the veil of blindness spoken of in Isaiah 6:9-10 is lifted off of you and your people.

The differences might be between understandings of Moshiakh Ben David and Moshiakh Ben Yosef...the King vs the suffering servant...but even that is in debate...

danny ski · Dec 25, 2016

gadar perets said:
You won't have to wait that long. You will consider Yeshua as soon as the veil of blindness spoken of in Isaiah 6:9-10 is lifted off of you and your people.

And there it is... the blind Jew argument. And you, seriously, want me to consider your point of view?

gadar perets · Dec 25, 2016

danny ski said:
And there it is... the blind Jew argument. And you, seriously, want me to consider your point of view?

So how is Isaiah 6:9-10 and 29:10 fulfilled in the Jews?

BTW, Micah 5 tells us when the blindness will end.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.(Messiah Yeshua)
Mic 5:3 Therefore will he (Messiah Yeshua, the ruler in Israel) give them up (during their period of blindness), until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth (Zion giving birth to the resurrected saints as per Isaiah 66:7-8): then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.(believers in Messiah Yeshua will return to evangelize the Jews/Israelites and their blindness will be lifted to behold Yeshua)

Na Nach Oi! · Dec 26, 2016

gadar perets said:
How is celebrating Hanukkah any different than celebrating Christmas? Christmas is founded upon the truth that the Messiah was born to save the world. Sadly, man added to that truth things that were untrue (that December 25 is his birthday, Santa Clause, etc.). Many Messianics do not celebrate Christmas because of those added things that are not true. Hanukkah is founded upon the truth of the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem. Sadly, man added to that truth things that were not true (the miracle of the oil, Hanukkiahs or nine branched menorahs to perpetuate the myth of the oil, etc.). Why do many Messianics reject Christmas on the grounds that it is associated with untruths, but they embrace Hanukkah even though it is associated with untruths?

Official (because it is in canonized writings) scriptural basis of Chanukah, ironically, written in John 10:22, the gospel which Judaism rejects.

New International Version
Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,

New Living Translation
It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication.

Anything else are preserved in "unofficial" writings like apocrypha or in the Talmud.

Oh, BTW, this guy interpret it right: Christmas - Was Jesus born on December 25th?

gadar perets · Dec 26, 2016

AyeAyeCaptainJack said:
Official (because it is in canonized writings) scriptural basis of Chanukah, ironically, written in John 10:22, the gospel which Judaism rejects.

New International Version
Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter,

New Living Translation
It was now winter, and Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of Hanukkah, the Festival of Dedication.

Anything else are preserved in "unofficial" writings like apocrypha or in the Talmud.

As I said, "Hanukkah is founded upon truth". There is no denying John 10:22, etc. The Jews were celebrating the rededication of a STANDING Temple. It is no longer standing. It is a time for mourning the present, not rejoicing in the past; a time for reflecting on how their sins caused its defilement and destruction and what to do about it.

danny ski · Dec 26, 2016

gadar perets said:
So how is Isaiah 6:9-10 and 29:10 fulfilled in the Jews?

BTW, Micah 5 tells us when the blindness will end.

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.(Messiah Yeshua)
Mic 5:3 Therefore will he (Messiah Yeshua, the ruler in Israel) give them up (during their period of blindness), until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth (Zion giving birth to the resurrected saints as per Isaiah 66:7-8): then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.(believers in Messiah Yeshua will return to evangelize the Jews/Israelites and their blindness will be lifted to behold Yeshua)

Now, you're just tampering with the text.

Na Nach Oi! · Dec 26, 2016

gadar perets said:
As I said, "Hanukkah is founded upon truth". There is no denying John 10:22, etc. The Jews were celebrating the rededication of a STANDING Temple. It is no longer standing. It is a time for mourning the present, not rejoicing in the past; a time for reflecting on how their sins caused its defilement and destruction and what to do about it.

Don't worry, the Millennial Fourth Temple (Ezekiel's Temple) would be built soon!

Come Lord Jesus! Maranatha!

Happy Hanukkah??

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