Guns

Suomipoika said:

As for what a Christian should do.. well it's a different situation if you actually have to protect a company of people from an armed attacker. I think the principle would still be "the least possible damage". When it takes a paralyzing shot to protect people (I would say especially people other than yourself) from being killed then that's what you should do. If the shot turns out to be lethal (which should never be a Christian's real intention in a self-defence situation), then your attitude as a Christian should be "Lord forgive them for they don't know what they're doing", instead of kicking his bloody corpse and wishing him a nice day in perdition. Of course, you can always pray the Lord for the shot not to turn out a lethal one.

But the attitude of "emptying your clip on him without a second thought", from a Christian, gives me creeps.

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From my understanding, most gun-advocating Christians would agree with that. If you can get past the dark humor, you would find that lots of conservatives wouldn't want to empty a clip into a dangerous person when one bullet will do. Ideally, no one would have to die in one of those situations. But ideally, those situations wouldn't happen in the first place. In this world of injustice, where people can walk on technicalities, sue you if they get hurt breaking into your house or place of business, and come back with revenge on their minds (and prepared to deal with you this time), sometimes you have to shoot to kill in order to protect the people you love. Many of us don't want to kill unless we absolutely have to, and we don't think that death is absolutely necessary all the time. We value quick and effective action taken to deal with dangerous people, whether it is with a gun, hand-to-hand combat, or use of some close-range weapon, whether it is fatal or not. We just don't believe in ruling out guns outright.

suimopoika said:

That's was irony. I don't believe Cunningham's name is the first one you'll find on their 'lists'. Anyways, that's going way off-topic..

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That would explain the articles called things like "YWAM:The Facts about Their Headlond Dive into Apostasy "which came up when searching the site for Loren Cunningham.

Blackguard_ said:

That would explain the articles called things like "YWAM:The Facts about Their Headlond Dive into Apostasy "which came up when searching for Loren Cunningham.

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Ok, I did find that article, too. D'OH!

"The YWAM leadership including Loren Cunningham and Joy Dawson have both been on the Benny Hinn "This Is Your Day" show in endorsement of his ministry, pledging to work with him".

That doesn't sound too good to me. Anyways, I would still be wary of broad-brushing the YWAM with the "guilt by association" principle, based on one article. At least the one book that I read was rather an exact dichotomy to Hinn's ministry, teachings and lifestyle.. oh well, "examine everything and keep what is good.." okay, still off-topic.

Yeah, I think this thread is finally toast.

I own a gun (shotgun for hunting) When I come of age (which is one year and like 4 months away) I plan on buying and carrying a hand gun. As a christian you are right in saying we should not go straight for a leathal shot. On the other hand If a person is shooting up the place and killing people I am not really going to wait for a nonleathal shot and I am going to make sure that they will not get back up or shoot me if that means killing them then yes it's sad but hey If i save one life then yes I will kill the person who is shooting up the place. and If something like that happens I would rather ask for forgiveness than for permission

I personally hate guns. They are really scarey and they kill people. I don't want to be around then at all. That being said, I don't believe owning a gun is immoral. The act of murder is immoral. Defending ones family is not immoral.

twistedsketch said:

From my understanding, most gun-advocating Christians would agree with that. If you can get past the dark humor, you would find that lots of conservatives wouldn't want to empty a clip into a dangerous person when one bullet will do. Ideally, no one would have to die in one of those situations. But ideally, those situations wouldn't happen in the first place. In this world of injustice, where people can walk on technicalities, sue you if they get hurt breaking into your house or place of business, and come back with revenge on their minds (and prepared to deal with you this time), sometimes you have to shoot to kill in order to protect the people you love. Many of us don't want to kill unless we absolutely have to, and we don't think that death is absolutely necessary all the time. We value quick and effective action taken to deal with dangerous people, whether it is with a gun, hand-to-hand combat, or use of some close-range weapon, whether it is fatal or not. We just don't believe in ruling out guns outright.

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This is all wonderful to talk about comfortably tucked behind your desk, with a hot cup of joe..all relaxed.

The fact is that most people who have extensive firearms training (cops) unload their clips without even thinking. The report that they only fired one or two rounds, when in fact they emptied an entire 10+ round clip! Why? Because they where scared for their life and the adrenline rush was completely uncontrolable.

A kill is a kill is a kill. There is no, less or more dead. There is only dead.

Guns don't shoot sugar spice and all things nice at the attacker in an attempt to season his bagel. When you point a gun and pull the trigger, that means you have every intention to kill that person. You have already made the decision that that person must die in order for you, or your loved ones, to live.
On an impulse, and fraction of a second, you cannot decide to aim to incapacitate, or injure. You can't even think at all. You simply act.

I believe that every capable man has a responsiblity to find a way to protect his family. If he can't, he is putting his family at risk. I trained my finace to shoot the loaded 12gauge shotgun that is, next to my bed. I live in an extreemly safe area. However, there is always that chance, and i am ready.