Guilty with maybe a chance to prove yourself innocent.

Tax evasion should be on your list.

None of the above?

Though in the court of public opinion, probably all of them. We are amazingly cruel to each other and quick to judge.

None. Innocent until proven guilty. False accusations can ruin lives although the incident may have never even happened. I have seen plenty of people get smacked down through false allegations of various things and that has changed my mind. Just because you're accused of doing something doesn't mean you did it and in some ways I believe society does view people as guilty until proven innocent.

Although the crimes you listed illicit extreme emotional responses I still feel it should be innocent until proven otherwise.

I would think none.

Owing me money.

Ok people, pay up!

Here is a question for you though: Should prisoners we take in other countries be given the right of Habeas Corpus?

I have heard many reports of cases in the middle east where one person 'informs' on another for selfish reasons. It could be for revenge, or to get control of the other person's business, or for political power, but essentially all they need to do to get someone thrown into prison indefinitely is to claim that they have a connection to terrorist activities. Our forces are too busy to chase down actual evidence in every case and they often rely on informants to target real dangers. Unfortunately abuse of informing has caused many innocent people to be imprisoned and maltreated, sometimes for years, without any solid evidence of a committed crime.

As far as the military is concerned, prisoners of war are not subject to the same rights American citizens are granted in the constitution. Logistics aside, should they be? Should we be applying 'innocent until proven guilty' only to crimes committed by Americans, or to anyone we decide to subject to a system of justice? Should they have a speedy trial? Do they have a right to legal representation?

This is why the law provides for "probable cause". Because of the likelihood of a criminal getting away or other bad things to happen (such as people getting killed) would exist if our hands were tied to do anything unless we proved a suspect guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

When it really comes down to it, the real issue is corruption. We're all sinners. But if the government officials are corrupt, no law is going to help you. They will find ways to abuse it one way or another. You have to attack the corruption--not the law.

Brak said:

This is why the law provides for "probable cause". Because of the likelihood of a criminal getting away or other bad things to happen (such as people getting killed) would exist if our hands were tied to do anything unless we proved a suspect guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

Click to expand...

I thought probable cause meant the ability to do a police search if they had good reason to suspect a crime. It doesn't affect the treatment of the suspect by the courts.

Needless to say, I don't believe that any suspect in court should be treated as guilty without proof that they're guilty.

Brak said:

This is why the law provides for "probable cause". Because of the likelihood of a criminal getting away or other bad things to happen (such as people getting killed) would exist if our hands were tied to do anything unless we proved a suspect guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

When it really comes down to it, the real issue is corruption. We're all sinners. But if the government officials are corrupt, no law is going to help you. They will find ways to abuse it one way or another. You have to attack the corruption--not the law.

Click to expand...

AlexBP said:

I thought probable cause meant the ability to do a police search if they had good reason to suspect a crime. It doesn't affect the treatment of the suspect by the courts.

Needless to say, I don't believe that any suspect in court should be treated as guilty without proof that they're guilty.

Click to expand...

And even with probable cause, a warrant has to be very specific as to where you want to search and what you expect to find. It is not a carte blanche to tear someone's life and possessions apart -- despite the more-than-occasional overlooking, or even excusing of excesses.

Yes, corruption is one reason for the excesses, but the public's apathy (or worse, their tacit approval) is another.