God, not convinced.

Tellyontellyon said:

Maybe I do need to believe in a creator, but haven't had it convincingly put to me yet?

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I think everybody must answer some questions before they can be convinced about believing in God:

What would you lose if you believe in God and there is no God?

What do you win if you don‘t believe and there is a God?

Be blessed,

Manno

Freth said:

This is a slippery slope. I could thank God for video games, then justify my enjoyment of them. Aside from the thanks I gave to God, the games themselves do not glorify God, and most likely have me breaking commandments in-game, like killing, for instance. Killing virtually for entertainment.

Granted, a classical piece of music has no such reference point to go on, aside from the music itself, and the composer's intent (secular, most likely). But then, we're told not to love the world (1 John 2:15). What is safe and what is not? What is truly glorifying God and what is not? Each person must decide.

I have a large music collection that I don't listen to, because I can't justify it.

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It's funny you say that because when I was younger that's basically what I did. I was not trying to justify anything, but out of a desire to learn, I learned, by experience, that there is a subtle difference between the the gratuitious and the decent. Not all war games are made with a focus on "killing for fun," there is a certain honorable way to conduct warfare, and sheltering myself from that experience would not have benefited me in the same way.

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

Science theorizes we evolved (from what exactly?) and that the evidence is in nature ..... God claims the same thing.... that is ... what we see in nature is the evidence of himself.

Romans 1:19-21
English Standard Version

19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

One thing we do know for sure either way ..... life comes from life .... beyond that it is theory and will remain so.

You seek for us to convince you in mind when ultimate realisation is from the heart.

The heart hears spiritual truth.

The mind can't.

Tellyontellyon said:

But surely, if you give thanks to God for it then it glorifies God? Give God the glory for it... recognise that God made it possible... Even a beautiful piece of music.

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That is correct.

Tellyontellyon said:

.

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I have a couple of suggestions.

1) If God exists, then he is GOD. . .you must seek him on his terms, not your own terms.

2) And his terms are that he does not reveal himself to satisfy our curiosity, only to satisfy our need for him and our willingness to receive him as GOD, and not as an object of investigation.

Without a willingness to receive him upon his making himself known, he will not reveal himself to you.

O.K., You want proof? Turn to Psalm 83 it is prophecying which nations attacked Israel in 1948, when Israel declared independance. I don't know when this Psalm was written, but it's probably about 2,500 years ago. If God does not exist, who else would know this so long ago.

Turn now to Isaiah 46:9 to Isaiah 46:10. Remember the former things of old; for I am God and there is none else: I am God and there is none like me. Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My council shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

He is going to tell you what is going to happen long before it happens, proving that He is God and what He propheced all came true and not a word of it failed to happen. What more proof is there that God is who He says that He is!

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

What's the chances anything can happen by chance?

The chance is 1:∞

In other words matters concerning God are not measurable mathematically.

That's not what the OP asked. They're asking for you to share the Gospel with them, they're not asking for condemnation.

Trusting in Him said:

If you reject creation and the creator and you reject God! If you reject God in this life, you won't be spending the next life in eternity with Him, so the only other alternative is eternity in hell. Rejecting Him is also rejecting the price He paid for you on the cross, which is punished by eternity in hell. The only way to get out of hell is not to go there in the first place. Hell is for all eternity, it never ends. You don't just cease to exist! Read your bible and find out.

Also read Romans 1:19-22 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shown it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the World are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. Because that when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

As someone has already indicated to you, there is a choice to be made. Make sure that you know what you are choosing. Not choosing God is automatically choosing the alternative. You either choose to spend eternity with God, or eternity with the Devil in the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:10 & Revelation 20:15).

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Trusting in Him said:

O.K., You want proof? Turn to Psalm 83 it is prophecying which nations attacked Israel in 1948, when Israel declared independance. I don't know when this Psalm was written, but it's probably about 2,500 years ago. If God does not exist, who else would know this so long ago.

Turn now to Isaiah 46:9 to Isaiah 46:10. Remember the former things of old; for I am God and there is none else: I am God and there is none like me. Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My council shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

He is going to tell you what is going to happen long before it happens, proving that He is God and what He propheced all came true and not a word of it failed to happen. What more proof is there that God is who He says that He is!

Click to expand...

The Psalms don't prophesy the return of Israel in '48. The return coincides with the arrival of the Messiah and peace, not with a bloody ongoing war with Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

Carl Emerson said:

The chance is 1:∞

In other words matters concerning God are not measurable mathematically.

Click to expand...

It is logically self-contradictory to say chance determines anything.

Thatgirloncfforums said:

The Psalms don't prophesy the return of Israel in '48. The return coincides with the arrival of the Messiah and peace, not with a bloody ongoing war with Christian and Muslim Palestinians.

Click to expand...

But The bible named the list of the nations involved, it was not an ongoing war the state of Israel had only just been declared.

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

Everything is so complex and relies on so much to exist for it to have just begun from nothing.

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

You sound very like me! I come from a scientific and agnostic background and no amount of bible quoting etc would have convinced me of a Creator God. I too got very into Buddhism and meditation and for a while thought it held the ultimate truth but I now believe not only in God as the creator of the universe but also in Jesus as our Saviour! I got to this point by reading a lot of Christian apologetics stuff, particularly by Lee Strobel. I was drawn to him as he is a former atheist who not only came from a skeptical background but as a newspaper editor with legal training he has quite a good bullsh't detector! I've linked a couple of his Youtube talks below, one where he summarises the reasons to believe in a Creator and one where he discusses actual historical evidence not just for Jesus's existence but for his resurrection...



I challenge you to give these a watch with an open mind and see if they can convince you not only that there is a God who created everything but that He came to Earth in human form and died as our substitute to pay for our sins. Until I'd looked into arguments like this I wouldn't have dreamt of even picking up a Bible as to me it all just seemed like fairy tales until I had a reasonj to take it seriously!!

If you like these videos Lee Strobel has written loads of books too (I think I've read most of them!). Other good people to look up are J Warner Wallace (a cold case detective and former skeptic), Nabeel Qureshi (a former devout muslim who's now a Christian apologist), William Lane Craig and Gary Habermas. They've all written books, they're all on YouTube and they all deal in proven facts .

Strangely it was a Buddhist book (by Thich Nhat Hanh) which led me to even look into Christianity as in his book Living Buddha Living Christ he basically suggested that good can come of following any religion and that you should look into whatever religion is dominant in your country (or words to that effect!). I don't agree with Nhat Hanh's portrayal of Jesus in this book (bascially just as a very good spiritual teacher, nothing more) but I'm thankful that he led me down this path!

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

Where did matter and the laws of physics come from?

Trusting in Him said:

But The bible named the list of the nations involved,

Click to expand...

Nations like Philistia don't exist anymore though.

it was not an ongoing war the state of Israel had only just been declared.

Click to expand...

The Israelis and Palestinians have been at war since 1948..

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

we know life comes from life ... so therefore there is a "life giver"

The bible is not a science book ... but where it does talk about creation it is exactly what we do in fact see .... ie.. made them male and female and reproduce after their kind.

eleos1954 said:

we know life comes from life ... so therefore there is a "life giver"

The bible is not a science book ... but where it does talk about creation it is exactly what we do in fact see .... ie.. made them male and female and reproduce after their kind.

Click to expand...

...and fact comes from fact; existence comes from existence.

There really is no other way for this to happen but by First Cause.

Tellyontellyon said:

Hi, I've been thinking about what I find difficult about Theistic religions... And it's God. Basically, I don't believe in a creator God.

I grew up with a very scientifically orientated way of thinking and always dismissed the possibility of God, or anything spiritual, out of hand. I was open to the possibility of psychic experiences though.

As an adult, I had some stressful times and got into meditation and then Buddhism.

Although Buddhism includes being open to things like, rebirth and karma, invisible beings of various sorts, heaven, hell, demons and suchlike... it's possible to get by without believing those things...

However, over the years I find myself able to believe in these things in a way a strict materialist never would!

So... what stops me believing in God? What reason do I have for continuing to dismiss that possibility? I know it's not a Buddhist belief, but that's not a good reason not to believe in it. Buddhism tells us we shouldn't be attached to our own opinions, so I need to keep an open mind about this...

I think the old materialist part of me still holds sway, at least in the God area, and this is because I haven't heard a good argument about why it ought to be true?

I'm not looking for an argument, or asking you to 'convince me' in some cocky way, where I'm out to prove you wrong... but I do need to be convinced and to hear the best arguments for the existence of God.

So... um... come on... Convince me!

Click to expand...

It’s similar to convincing electromagnetic field exists: have to show the effects of this phenomenon, because we can’t detect it directly with our senses.

So far I haven’t seen any compelling argument for God’s existence, and I’ve looked at many over the years.

Not that I’m an atheist. Maybe there’s a God, or multiple Gods, or our God is a God of a certain corner of the Universe and there are other or higher Gods etc. Or the reality could be more complex or very different beyond anything we can imagine or place in a model such as God (who is basically, an expanded idea of a human being). The possibilities are endless. Nobody knows.

Faith is a choice.