Getting forgiveness for being a complete self-indulgent moron (mastrubation related)

JustAsIam77 · May 30, 2008

Nadiine said:
Great Post !
I agree.

And it is true that us women can "shut ourselves down" for years - I've known a few myself with horrible marital trouble and single women for years.
I think God just made us drastically different biologically - and I think it's becuz of 1 reason (I'm not saying it's fact, just my opinion).

I think that men could and would live without women if they weren't given such a strong sexual drive. Sex is essentially what makes men 'chase' or want women. Without it, I think men would be turned off by our traits, dispositions and personalities for the most part (as a life-long mate without sex involved).

I have male friends and that is what I've concluded based on conversations. Again I'm not saying it's true of ALL males, but maybe a large number?
Dunno.

anyways, nice balanced post - even in liberties we can be in sin with them if we aren't careful.

You don't have to "dunno" any longer. Your take from conversations with your male friends is spot on. As a man I praise God for the women in my life. The mother of my children. The woman who gave birth to me. The daughters I adore. My sister whom I love.

However, your insight into the relationship between men and women (given the absence of sexual overtones) is refreshingly rare and correct. Whether most guys have the fortitude to say it or not.

Admiral Kirk · May 30, 2008

Its been almost a month for me since the last time I've MB'ed. Is it really a sin? I'm a little perplexed, as the Bible does not even mention masturbation.

Nadiine · May 30, 2008

Constantine777 said:
Its been almost a month for me since the last time I've MB'ed. Is it really a sin? I'm a little perplexed, as the Bible does not even mention masturbation.

Other things are mentioned, like lust - it's more about what goes on in our minds... and even liberties are not always safe just becuz we can do something.

But the OP really isn't about is it right or wrong - it's his particular issue he's dealing with, not asking us to solve the dilemna.
Which of the many threads that exist on this, still isn't fully agreed on either way.

=)

Nadiine · May 30, 2008

JustAsIam77 said:
You don't have to "dunno" any longer. Your take from conversations with your male friends is spot on. As a man I praise God for the women in my life. The mother of my children. The woman who gave birth to me. The daughters I adore. My sister whom I love.

However, your insight into the relationship between men and women (given the absence of sexual overtones) is refreshingly rare and correct. Whether most guys have the fortitude to say it or not.

well if women didn't threaten & browbeat, maybe they'de be able to feel they could be honest! lol

I'm very disgusted with alot of what women are doing today & the authority they've decided to take on & how men are treated.
Oh, don't get me started.

I'll leave it at, Dr. Laura having to write a book on how men should be treated. I can't say as I'm a diehard Dr. Laura fan, but in that dept, she's spot on imho.

=)

raoul · May 30, 2008

Nadiine said:
SIGH.
This isn't about IS IT RIGHT OR WRONG. and it isn't for YOU to say if it is or isn't in HIS LIFE/ for him.

I'm shocked that people are speaking so arrogantly to decide it isn't, when it deals with sexual thoughts in the mind.
Even lust of another woman if married constitutes adultery & is sin. So what you think CAN be sin.
So how can you decide for someone else who masterbates, that it isn't wrong when you have no clue what they think during the act???
I don't believe that "act" is so much a sin... but the thoughts that accompany it might be the problem.
That's between them & God and it's not for me (or you) to say either way.

I'd be REAL careful where you go in condoning things; namely if they feel conviction in their hearts over it and it's affecting them spiritually or emotionally.

I quoted James earlier, IF something is against your conviction/ then to do what you know isn't right, it is sin for you. It may not be sin to someone else who's conscience doesn't bother them (& who knows, maybe it's due to it being dulled by other sins they live in?), but if they feel it's wrong for them, then doing it makes it wrong as they violate their own conscience.

This isn't about 'is it right or wrong' - which almost all the posts end up turning to in these threads.

Well, talking about sin - your avator is VERY suggestive...

Admiral Kirk · May 30, 2008

One quick question, is it "adultery at heart" if you lust an unmarried woman? Would that still be a sin as opposed to lusting a married woman?

Nadiine · May 30, 2008

raoul said:
Well, talking about sin - your avator is VERY suggestive...

Want me to go find an Amish gramma for you

It's a top that ties at the neck & a small piece of the top of the back/shoulders.... I don't really see it's "suggestive" - it's what normal people wear in the summer =)

raoul · May 31, 2008

Constantine777 said:
One quick question, is it "adultery at heart" if you lust an unmarried woman? Would that still be a sin as opposed to lusting a married woman?

Actually, if either one are ugly you get a free pass. It's a mercy thing..

raoul · May 31, 2008

Nadiine said:
Want me to go find an Amish gramma for you

It's a top that ties at the neck & a small piece of the top of the back/shoulders.... I don't really see it's "suggestive" - it's what normal people wear in the summer =)

You posted too much information which leads me to believe you'd better confess your sin now or else... ROFL

And I've really got a thing for Amish grammas - those ankle length costumes and bonnets from the 1700s and the fact that they don't bath too often (based on sitting on a very long train ride next to some of them once a long time ago)... WOW!

Nadiine · May 31, 2008

raoul said:
You posted too much information which leads me to believe you'd better confess your sin now or else... ROFL

And I've really got a thing for Amish grammas - those ankle length costumes and bonnets from the 1700s and the fact that they don't bath too often (based on sitting on a very long train ride next to some of them once a long time ago)... WOW!

it's the darned BONNETS!
Men must like hats or something. LOL

Maybe I'll go pick up some baby bonnets at a kiddy store and see if I get any male attention.
ROFL

LJSGM · May 31, 2008

Armistead said:
Puberty created by God makes us sexual creatures. It makes us sexually attracted to one another. The thoughts come without thinking. I guess we will just have to disagree with how lust is defined, but I find no biblical basis at all that lust equals sexual thought. Biblically, lust is to covet, desire to take something, out of control behavior that harms others.

Just because the natural man is sinful, that doesn't make that which is natural sinful. People should not feel guilty over what God created to be natural through puberty. If not for sexual thoughts, desire and fantasy, men would pay little attention to women and stick to fishing. If not for natural puberty that makes men go ape over the sexuality of a women, we would probably marry our fishing buddies.

Guilt is more often taught than a matter of the true conscience. When a religion ingrains that something is evil, dirty and sinful into a childs mind at an early age until adulthood, his true conscience never had a chance. Man's legalistic unbiblical teachings have so corrupted the concept of guilt, it's now almost impossible to define what is real guilt. I spent most of my youth waiting for God to smite me for puberty. Just look at Islam and how they view sexuality. Everyone's conscience is more a product of what is placed into the brain.

Some churches are teaching MB with guidlines. However, almost always one guildeline is "no sexual thought while MB." How stupid and silly and it perverts and represses the natural sexual maturity that is developed. I want my son to be sexually attracted to females and will encourage him in the process. If we started at the time of the RCC until today and how the church taught and dealt with sexuality, one can clearly see the church is responsible for most perverted sexual behavior. I would bet many homosexual males became that way due to the repression of natural sexuality.

Each should test their motives over any behavior. The test should be..how will this harm myself or others. If the behavior would cause harm, then the spirit would convict. However, children need to be guided because they are not old enought to decide guilt correctly. For the most part, only a few people corrupt their sexual thoughts to the point it becomes harmful.
Their are some where the thought life could become dangerous and they could actually act on it. Certainly, men should not have thoughts of underage children, thoughts of rape, thoughts that would belittle, ect. As for keeping it under control...that is silly for 90% of the population. People will naturally do it when the urge hits them. Certainly, there are people that have sexual dysfunction mentally and get out of control. Other than that, MB should be taught as normal and that sexual thought will be apart of it.

What is sad, like the OP, there are so many young men that want to serve God, but live in misery over MB. The fear and guilt ruins what could be a special walk. Like the OP, who at his age is serious about his beliefs. How sad he has so much emotional guilt and confusion over what is normal. In this case, it's not the spirit convicting him, it's the guilt that has been taught and burned into his mind. The fact is, MB will continue in his life.
He will either learn that it's normal or grow up in guilt and fear. Sadly, this would cause him many emotional problems into adulthood if he doesn't get proper learning.

James Dobson of Focus on the Family has a fairly good teaching aspect to MB. I would encourage people to take the time to read his views. Still a little fundie to me, but would be helpful to those fundies that can't beat MB.

great post.

MB in it's simple form is not a sin. The act it's self is not a sin. It is what is in a persons heart that can be a sin. Sexual desire in it's basic fleshly form is not a sin, it's what you do with it that can be. Just as armistead said, what Jesus was speaking of was coveting or desiring to take something that is not yours or can not be yours, ie another man's wife. Anything else that is harmful to others, such as objectifying women instead of seeing them as your sister's in Christ, treating them in a less then respectful manner, ect because of those sexual impulses. Also being controlled by MB, or gratifying yourself with impure thoughts such as armistead has mentioned, such as pediphilia, or pornography is a big one. Pornography is the glorification of or taking pleasure from an impure act of whoredom, ect, and that, I'm sure God would see as unrighteous.

In marriage, it should not be selfishly done in regards to your mate, as in, if they need to be fullfilled sexually. My husband always viewed MB as really horrible leftovers compared to the act of marriage, which was like a really big yummy turkey dinner and doesn't really MB anylonger.

Anyways, just trying to help.

raoul · Jun 1, 2008

Well, you have me in checkmate there with your reply. Thanks for the laugh. Now I'll run and duck.. LOL

lionscradle · Jun 3, 2008

like others have said, it is your heart, your attitude.. and considering you are a maturing ( or was ) adolescent, its understood that the hormonal urges come more strongly.. i would say pray about it, .. when in doubt, pray..

it takes humility to come to this moment in the first place, you're not an idiot.. best wishes

YourChild · Jun 4, 2008

conkertheking said:
This is a long, sad story, so if you're not in the mood for a wall of text, stop reading right here.

I've struggled with mastrubation ever since I was 11 or 12. For some reason I ALWAYS felt bad about it, even before I actually knew what it was (it used to just "happen", I had no idea what it really meant or anything). And after being wildly indulgent in it for years, but still consantly questioning whether or not I was sinning, finally, at 17, I decided to give it up for lent last year. I straight away noticed an incredible amount of energy and optimism in myself after a few days. I really don't know what to make of that - it could have just been psychological, since I was just happy I was managing what I thought I couldn't. Or else it was because it really IS sinful and deep down my soul was thrilled I'd gotten rid of it. Anyway, after lent was over, I did it again a few times, and it just never felt right, so in June I decided, in a moment of madness, to vow to give it up for at least one entire year, just to see if I could.

Bizarrely, I actually managed it. I remember saying to myself at the time "Yeah right, don't kid yourself", but in august I suddenly realised that I hadn't actually thought about it in the 2 months since I kicked the habit. I also noticed that everything suddenly looked bright and optimistic. Again, that could just have been the relief of not having the weight of guilt hanging over me anymore. At Christmas I had a "dream" (you know what I mean) and I felt slightly bad about that but reasoned that there's nothing whatsoever anyone can do about those, and so I continued on my abstinence, the target of one year looming ever closer.

Then, finally, I lost it. This morning. I didn't really mean for it to happen, at first I was just trying to get rid of an urge, but without even meaning to, I went all the way. I cursed myself into the ground over it, immediately prayed for forgiveness, and the same at mass this morning.Christian faith tells us that i we believe God will forgive us for something like this, he will. But there's still a cloud in my mind:

Is that "the end" or the great feeling I've had up until now? I can't help noticing that this past year has been the best year of my life, and you can call me superstitious, but I can't help feeling the two are somehow related - so now that I've finally given in to my wretched temptation, particularly as my target was SO DAMN CLOSE, does that mean that suddenly this streak of good luck and success I've been having is going to stop?

This probably sounds utterly childish and ridiculous, but for some reason it's really eating me alive. I can't bear the thought that I've just thrown away all the good things that have been happening in my life in a few minutes of stupidity,,,

And is there anything in particular I should do to ask for forgiveness over this? I'm thinking about going to confession or something, but since there seems to be total ambiguity over whether this is actually sinful, the priest might not understand what's wrong...

Wow. Reading that over, I've never felt like more of an idiot. Can anyone help?

First of all I am honored to hear your situation and glad that I have the opportunity to say a few words which may help you through this..

Before anything though, I want you to know that masturbation is a sin and don't be surprised if you hear many professing 'Christians' on this forum tolerate this sin..they will throw all sorts of worldly reasoning to rationalize it...

I know masturbation is a sin because when I got saved, this was one of the first sins that rang out in my mind as I cried my eyes out and repented before God. I had the same problem with this issue..infact, I was hooked on it for a very long time but praise God that I am set free today.

The cause for this addiction goes far beyond what most people, and even Christians, can understand. Its a spiritual issue and it involves demonic spirits.

For many Christians that are not familiar with the deliverance ministry of the Christian walk, they will have no idea what I'm saying and they will probably not believe what I say...but ask any deliverance minister and they will tell you the same thing....

The reason why you can't seem to stop masturbating is because there is a demon inside you thats stimulating your addiction. In your heart you know its wrong because your God-given conscience tells you so..this could very well be the Holy Spirit convicting your heart everytime you fall into this sin...but I'm glad you haven't let your conscience dull out.

If you continue and try to quit masturbating, you won't be able to go for long...number 1, you are trying to do it out of your own human strength...and 2, that demon is still there, making it even harder for you...

The only way is to rely on God's strength. come before the Lord and renounce to this habit and repent (with a sincere heart).

Say, "Lord I come before You right now I ask for Your forgiveness. In the Name of Jesus I renounce to masturbation! Lord Jesus come into you heart and take hold of me. Lord I want to quite masturbation. I can't do this alone!!! I surrender my will to You right now! Come and change me Lord!!!!"

you must cry out to God in true repentance. repentance is not a 2 minute, "Lord I'm sorry" then go walk off and find yourself in square 1 again...you must cry out to Him!!!

then after you receive His forgiveness, you need to go see a local Christian church that does deliverance. If you dont find one then you can cast the demon out yourself. Place your hand over your head and command with authority, "In the Name of the Lord Jesus CHrist, I plead the Blood of the Lamb of God upon me. I break every tie with the dark side. I am seated with Christ in heavenly places far above all satanic forces. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God dwells in me. I renounce to all forms of addictions and worldly bondages. In Jesus' Name, I bind, chain and cast out the spirit of masturbation!! Come out of me right now in Jesus' Name!!! I paralyze you right now in Jesus' Name!!!! Flee from me right now in Jesus' Name!!!!"

As you keep attacking the demon with authoritative prayers against it, you're going to find yourself wanting to puke. Get a trashcan ready cus that demon is going to come out of your mouth as you puke. or it may come out of you in other ways...its different for everyone. you might jump or fall tothe floor..i dont know....but be strong in your prayers and stand against the demon in the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ. The victory is our's.

I remember saying to myself at the time "Yeah right, don't kid yourself",

If you had spoken this verbally then it was you who said it. But if this sentence came to your mind out of nowhere then it wasn't you who spoke it but it was the demon.

I have been saved for a little over 2 years now and I am set free from masturbation since the day I got saved. I know being masturbation free is possibly because I am living proof of it. I used to be the biggest pervert around..the Lord has healed me. Hallelujah!

Armistead · Jun 4, 2008

Nadiine said:
Want me to go find an Amish gramma for you

It's a top that ties at the neck & a small piece of the top of the back/shoulders.... I don't really see it's "suggestive" - it's what normal people wear in the summer =)

The top is fine and very sexy....don't change it...

Armistead · Jun 4, 2008

YourChild said:
First of all I am honored to hear your situation and glad that I have the opportunity to say a few words which may help you through this..

Before anything though, I want you to know that masturbation is a sin and don't be surprised if you hear many professing 'Christians' on this forum tolerate this sin..they will throw all sorts of worldly reasoning to rationalize it...

I know masturbation is a sin because when I got saved, this was one of the first sins that rang out in my mind as I cried my eyes out and repented before God. I had the same problem with this issue..infact, I was hooked on it for a very long time but praise God that I am set free today.

The cause for this addiction goes far beyond what most people, and even Christians, can understand. Its a spiritual issue and it involves demonic spirits.

For many Christians that are not familiar with the deliverance ministry of the Christian walk, they will have no idea what I'm saying and they will probably not believe what I say...but ask any deliverance minister and they will tell you the same thing....

The reason why you can't seem to stop masturbating is because there is a demon inside you thats stimulating your addiction. In your heart you know its wrong because your God-given conscience tells you so..this could very well be the Holy Spirit convicting your heart everytime you fall into this sin...but I'm glad you haven't let your conscience dull out.

If you continue and try to quit masturbating, you won't be able to go for long...number 1, you are trying to do it out of your own human strength...and 2, that demon is still there, making it even harder for you...

The only way is to rely on God's strength. come before the Lord and renounce to this habit and repent (with a sincere heart).

Say, "Lord I come before You right now I ask for Your forgiveness. In the Name of Jesus I renounce to masturbation! Lord Jesus come into you heart and take hold of me. Lord I want to quite masturbation. I can't do this alone!!! I surrender my will to You right now! Come and change me Lord!!!!"

you must cry out to God in true repentance. repentance is not a 2 minute, "Lord I'm sorry" then go walk off and find yourself in square 1 again...you must cry out to Him!!!

then after you receive His forgiveness, you need to go see a local Christian church that does deliverance. If you dont find one then you can cast the demon out yourself. Place your hand over your head and command with authority, "In the Name of the Lord Jesus CHrist, I plead the Blood of the Lamb of God upon me. I break every tie with the dark side. I am seated with Christ in heavenly places far above all satanic forces. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God dwells in me. I renounce to all forms of addictions and worldly bondages. In Jesus' Name, I bind, chain and cast out the spirit of masturbation!! Come out of me right now in Jesus' Name!!! I paralyze you right now in Jesus' Name!!!! Flee from me right now in Jesus' Name!!!!"

As you keep attacking the demon with authoritative prayers against it, you're going to find yourself wanting to puke. Get a trashcan ready cus that demon is going to come out of your mouth as you puke. or it may come out of you in other ways...its different for everyone. you might jump or fall tothe floor..i dont know....but be strong in your prayers and stand against the demon in the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ. The victory is our's.

If you had spoken this verbally then it was you who said it. But if this sentence came to your mind out of nowhere then it wasn't you who spoke it but it was the demon.

I have been saved for a little over 2 years now and I am set free from masturbation since the day I got saved. I know being masturbation free is possibly because I am living proof of it. I used to be the biggest pervert around..the Lord has healed me. Hallelujah!

Now the act of puberty is a demon that we should flee from. Many want to blame demons for irresponsibility of their part.

Of all advice here, pro or con, this is some of the worse I've ever heard.
Of course it probably is just someone using religion to be sarcastic.

YourChild · Jun 5, 2008

Armistead said:
Of all advice here, pro or con, this is some of the worse I've ever heard.
Of course it probably is just someone using religion to be sarcastic.

Puberty is another story...I don't think the OP is going through puberty..and like I said, if you and your church is not doing deliverance, then none of the stuff I said will make any sense to you. I'm not surprised.

Nadiine · Jun 5, 2008

YourChild said:
Puberty is another story...I don't think the OP is going through puberty..and like I said, if you and your church is not doing deliverance, then none of the stuff I said will make any sense to you. I'm not surprised.

I'm very familiar w/ spiritual warfare and I don't mock most of that stuff (albeit I think some can carry it over the limit & see demons under every rock & around every corner) - my issue taken with your information is that you seem to claim people are literally demon possessed if they do this and I have a hard time agreeing with that aspect - esp. if they're genuine Christians.
I believe they can be oppressed... but that's another thread entirely.

I do believe that there are spirits involved in sexual sins, namely where perversions are present and people should deal with them to be free, but again I'm not convinced on the posession end esp. with this issue of MB. That would mean that nearly every single believer is demon possessed if they ever masturbated.

And you're right, until people deal with this stuff firsthand, they don't believe it - but being in warfare myself, I don't believe all the claims either. It's possible you had other posession or oppression issues prior that were unrelated to this. I can't know.

dayhiker · Jun 6, 2008

I too have real problems with your child's cmments.

I have been involved in casting out demons. So I understand that experinces of using God authority. I've also studied all the verses in the Bible that deal with the devil and demons. So I know something of the teaching the Bible has on this topic.

I've read quite a few books by deliverance ministers as well.

There clearly are some ministers that find demons everywhere and many many kinds of demons. I think a demon can have a demon behind it that person is totally comsumed by it. But just masturbating to releave the sexual tensing that God created healthy people to have from puberty on isn't a sin nor would that be the result of a demon. The Bible doesn't say its a sin and nor does it make sense that God created people as sexual beings and not its demonic.

So Your Child when you got saved I think God asked you to do something. You have obeyed what God asked you to do. Like you I say Hallelujah. But that God asked you to do something doesn't mean God has asked everyone to do the same thing. I've had many freinds who I've fellewshipped with as God was asking them to do something. Yet God wasn't asking me to do that. That's the mistake I see you making.

God bless you
dayhiker

Armistead · Jun 7, 2008

YourChild said:
Puberty is another story...I don't think the OP is going through puberty..and like I said, if you and your church is not doing deliverance, then none of the stuff I said will make any sense to you. I'm not surprised.

Puberty is a process that makes us sexual, it never really goes away. It may change as hormones change, but it's not a process that ends. Puberty make us sexual beings and that doesn't go away. Before puberty, you did not think sexually, didn't care. Once it happens, sexual thoughts and desires happen. This is the way God created the body to work. Without sexual thoughts and desires, man would never seek to marry. God placed in us a force so strong that man and women are driven together. Why there are many reasons to seek a mate, it is sexuality and that alone that makes us want each other as God intended.

No deliverance program can stop what God placed in man. All these programs do is install guilt, fear and sexual confusion. I've studied these programs and the problem is they distort and confuse sexuality. They do not seperate normal sexual nature from sexual illness, but put both in the same pot. They are so harmful to young normal teens.

There should be programs for those that suffer severe sinful sexual behavior, but these programs do not even address these problems correctly, because they don't understand normal sexuality.

The best these programs offer is someone to call each time you feel guilty over MB or having a sexual desire. Why some stop for periods, 99.9% continue, however in guilt and fear. Many in these programs become convinced they have a demon, because they can't quit. Another reason these programs are so corrupt. In the end you have to have something to blame it all, because all the plans fail.

Anyone honest ready your post can clearly see the emotional harm you are going through, because of poor biblical teaching. If it continues you will suffer for years. I have talked with many who got proper help, even after knowing the teachings were corrupt, still could not get it all out of their heads.

Getting forgiveness for being a complete self-indulgent moron (mastrubation related)

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