Genesis question

HaReb · Mar 11, 2008

Surely the light, to get back to the OP, was the same glory of the L_rd that Yesha'yahu speaks of in his call, as well as Yechezk'el?

As Henaynei has pointed out - it is also in the Book of Revelation (singular, never plural!!). As Y'shua created the world (Yochanan 1:1-14) there can be no other explanation!

johnd · Mar 11, 2008

HaReb said:
Surely the light, to get back to the OP, was the same glory of the L_rd that Yesha'yahu speaks of in his call, as well as Yechezk'el?

As Henaynei has pointed out - it is also in the Book of Revelation (singular, never plural!!). As Y'shua created the world (Yochanan 1:1-14) there can be no other explanation!

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Is explanation enough. Essentially God was entering into the created hulk of darkness...

Lulav · Mar 11, 2008

Yuanshen said:
God said, "Let there be light." But the sun and stars etc were not made until later. Jesus said he is the light of the world. When God said, "Let there be light,' was that the beginning of Jesus?

yuan

Before I read everyone else's interpretation, let me offer mine after many years of study on this, as Genesis is my favorite book.

I have studied this and expounded upon it with many hard core Bible scholars and have basically gotten this understanding from HaShem. So this is my conclusion, for now, with my limited human understanding.

First we know that the day as defined by HaShem begins at sundown, thus darkness, and moves along into light. Man defys this and defines it as from the darkest (midnight) back around to the darkest.

So we see that darkness is always there, you need a light to shine in the darkness to push it back.

So in the beginning there was darkness, and the light of G-d was in existence but not present. I know that is hard to grasp, but this is how I understand it.

We see here in verse 1:2

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep; And a wind from God moved upon the face of the waters:

The darkness is there, and thus G-d brings his Ruach, his Spirit, called a 'wind' here into the earths presence.

Then we see the very next is

3. And God said, Let there be light; and there was light:

And now he has brought in his 'essence' that is light.

The actual word for word translation here is

And said G-d, there shall be light and there was light.

Or 'And said G-d : Be Light'

'Be light' is a command to not come into existence but to bring the presence into the realm of the earth or the universe which He had already created.

We always think of G-d being ever present because he is , to us now, meaning since the creation of man, but we have to go back before that to understand this verse fully.

I hope that helps.

johnd · Mar 11, 2008

Good points.

Also the Ruach Ha Kodesh brooded over the surface of the deep suggesting undulation (vibration) essentially causing waves in the space time continuum to allow for the presence of light.

HaReb · Mar 11, 2008

Sorry, Lulav, I found that hard to see/understand exactly what you were saying. Can you condense it down by half?

This is a serious request - I don't see your point.

johnd · Mar 11, 2008

So you are asking 1 and a half opinions?

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Or actually 75% of an opinion... math is not my strong suit....

HaReb · Mar 11, 2008

So you are asking 1 and a half opinions?

Of course, as Y'shua said, "wheresover two or three (Jews) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them (trying to work it out).

AnneSally · Mar 11, 2008

Lulav said:
Before I read everyone else's interpretation, let me offer mine after many years of study on this, as Genesis is my favorite book.

I have studied this and expounded upon it with many hard core Bible scholars and have basically gotten this understanding from HaShem. So this is my conclusion, for now, with my limited human understanding.

First we know that the day as defined by HaShem begins at sundown, thus darkness, and moves along into light. Man defys this and defines it as from the darkest (midnight) back around to the darkest.

So we see that darkness is always there, you need a light to shine in the darkness to push it back.

So in the beginning there was darkness, and the light of G-d was in existence but not present. I know that is hard to grasp, but this is how I understand it.

We see here in verse 1:2
The darkness is there, and thus G-d brings his Ruach, his Spirit, called a 'wind' here into the earths presence.

Then we see the very next is

And now he has brought in his 'essence' that is light.

The actual word for word translation here is

And said G-d, there shall be light and there was light.

Or 'And said G-d : Be Light'

'Be light' is a command to not come into existence but to bring the presence into the realm of the earth or the universe which He had already created.

We always think of G-d being ever present because he is , to us now, meaning since the creation of man, but we have to go back before that to understand this verse fully.

I hope that helps.

Good post!

johnd · Mar 11, 2008

HaReb said:
Of course, as Y'shua said, "wheresover two or three (Jews) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them (trying to work it out).

LL !!!

Lulav · Mar 11, 2008

AnneSally said:
Good post!

Thank You

Tishri1 · Mar 11, 2008

HaReb said:
Of course, as Y'shua said, "wheresover two or three (Jews) are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them (trying to work it out).

good one

Lulav · Mar 11, 2008

HaReb said:
Sorry, Lulav, I found that hard to see/understand exactly what you were saying. Can you condense it down by half?

This is a serious request - I don't see your point.

My point? I'm supposed to have a point? What was the question again? Sorry I just got done reading all the pages on the offensive picture since I left and my head is swimming. Boy, you go out shopping for a bit and so much happens! Also I am cruising on little sleep so not sure if trying to explain this again with only half the words will work, but I'll give it a go. If not, just tell me and I'll try when in my right mind again, if that ever happens.

So this was the op ?

Genesis question

God said, "Let there be light." But the sun and stars etc were not made until later. Jesus said he is the light of the world. When God said, "Let there be light,' was that the beginning of Jesus?

Ok, from this question. True the sun, and other stars and moon were not made yet.

Yes Yeshua said and is the light of the world.

When G-d said Let there be light, you could say in a way that was the beginning of his presence within our universe, but not his existence.

With me so far?

Alright, let me re-read what I wrote before.

First we know that the day as defined by HaShem begins at sundown, thus darkness, and moves along into light. Man defies this and defines it as from the darkest (midnight) back around to the darkest.

So we see that darkness is always there, you need a light to shine in the darkness to push it back.

So in the beginning there was darkness, and the light of G-d was in existence but not present. I know that is hard to grasp, but this is how I understand it.

We see here in verse 1:2
The darkness is there, and thus G-d brings his Ruach, his Spirit, called a 'wind' here into the earths presence.

Then we see the very next is

And now he has brought in his 'essence' that is light.

The actual word for word translation here is

And said G-d, there shall be light and there was light.

Or 'And said G-d : Be Light'

'Be light' is a command to not come into existence but to bring the presence into the realm of the earth or the universe which He had already created.

We always think of G-d being ever present because he is , to us now, meaning since the creation of man, but we have to go back before that to understand this verse fully.

I hope that helps.

Ok, structure of 'time' as ordained by HaShem

Start with darkness move to light. 'Evening and morning first day'.

So the creation was in darkness.............G-ds spirit, his Ruach, the 'wind' moved upon the waters.......His Ruach which is his creative power, that is present.

Now he wants to bring more of himself into this dimension, is that a better word? See I understand it, but not sure what best words to use to describe it. I am not into Sci-fi so that is a big minus for me, I'm sure.

Anyway, when he says - or breaths, Let there be light, we have to rationalize it means into the universe.

If he can be outside space and time, he also can be within it.

I could do this simpler with a drawing, but apparently not with less words,. I think I used more,

Sorry Reb

Yuanshen · Mar 11, 2008

johnd said:
Yuan,

If you read the text carefully, light was being separated from darkness as it was being created. The darkness was over the land / earth but we must bear in mind the issue of perspective (like sun rise etc). Given the illusiveness of the nature of light to fall into any known category, particle or wave both and neither... it is apparently the stuff in common with both the universe and eternity.

I know this sounds like a page right out of Star Trek... but bear with me...

What the humanists behind those TV scripts call parallel universes, the Bible calls eternity / heaven / the spirit realm.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

We in the physical, finite universe think of things needing a source (like birth for example... it is difficult to imagine God always existing without beginning or end). So to presume light has to come from stellar bodies alone is really a rather simple approach to a very complex and illusive subject (light).

What we perceive as light is a reflection (if you will) of the nature of another realm (heaven). Here it is like a universe filled with candles, in heaven it is what eternity consists of. And the Genesis account was more or less the creation of the capacity for the physical to accommodate the spiritual. I think of it more or less like God breathing life into the universe... which was until that point a lifeless hulk.

It was this process that started the cycles of nature etc. not that the universe is a living being but is alive in the sense that plant life is... if you get my meaning.

So, "let there be light {here}" imho would be a fair (if not accurate) interpretation... the sources of current light being mere candles compared to stars... and the 24 hour "day and evening" simply mean the earth was already in a rotation aspect to the vent of light from the other realm.

Hello,
Thank you for your answer. I guess this one is over my head, but then again I am not an intellectual. I have to admit my limits, and realize that I do not understand what "Let there be light" means.

Can I ask a question? What would be wrong with God creating His Son?

yuan

johnd · Mar 11, 2008

Yuanshen said:
Hello,
Thank you for your answer. I guess this one is over my head, but then again I am not an intellectual. I have to admit my limits, and realize that I do not understand what "Let there be light" means.

Can I ask a question? What would be wrong with God creating His Son?

yuan

Sure.

The answer to your question is that God the Father created the body of the incarnation (the Son)1 while God the Word Creator of all else that was created 2 joined that body.

Documentation:

1.
Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

2.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So the flesh body was created but the Spirit within is Divine (eternal uncreated).

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

stone · Mar 13, 2008

No, Jesus is the word spoken, from the breath of the father.

Yuanshen said:
God said, "Let there be light." But the sun and stars etc were not made until later. Jesus said he is the light of the world. When God said, "Let there be light,' was that the beginning of Jesus?

yuan

HaReb · Mar 13, 2008

Lulav,

Thank you for bearing with me - I thought I had spotted something 'odd', well to me anyway.

You said:

His Ruach which is his creative power, that is present

Yochanan 1:1-14 disagrees with you - it says Y'shua created the world and all that is in it.

Lulav · Mar 13, 2008

HaReb said:
Lulav,

Thank you for bearing with me - I thought I had spotted something 'odd', well to me anyway.

You said:

Yochanan 1:1-14 disagrees with you - it says Y'shua created the world and all that is in it.

No, it doesn't disagree with me, nor I with it.

The part that is imperative to wrap ones mind around is

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G-d and the Word was G-d.

He was with G-d in the beginning, all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made, that was made.

There is more than one 'part' to G-d as well as Yeshua. Yeshua has that creative power, the Spirit, as well as Light, and life. But these things can apparently be separated at G-ds choosing, as we see in the beginning, first his spirit enters into the creation then his light enters into it and that light brings life, as is explained in the first of John.

Again, as I said before, I understand it, I just haven't found a way to vocalize it well just yet.

Yuanshen · Mar 14, 2008

stone said:
No, Jesus is the word spoken, from the breath of the father.

So Jesus came into being when God spoke "Let there be light?"

I read a preacher said that Jesus always existed as an image in the Father's heart.
Then he came out when God said, "Let there be light."
yuan

Yuanshen · Mar 14, 2008

HaReb said:
Lulav,

Thank you for bearing with me - I thought I had spotted something 'odd', well to me anyway.

You said:

Yochanan 1:1-14 disagrees with you - it says Y'shua created the world and all that is in it.

I read that Bible say the world was created through Jesus, not that Jesus was actual inventor.

yuan

milly83 · Mar 15, 2008

Morning all,

dont really have a question but i thought this might just be the appropriate thread to put it since it's about Genesis, i just thought i might share with you a little of my experience and ...happiness

ssssooooo, i finished reading the last 10 chapters of Genesis yesterday and then 15 chapters of Exodus, and i have to say it feels like getting History education, a thriller movie, food for the soul all in one, i could not put it down, and if it was not for work i had to do around the house today i would be, trying to get through Leviticus and Deut, today as well.
now you all may be thinking, "she's never read the old testament and only jsut figuring it out" lol, in all honesty no i have never really read the OT, WITH my eyes and heart open, i just read it "cause i had to" but since being on this "journey" i have found myself opening to his word, and asking him to reveal and explain things i do not understand to me.it certainly is food for the soul.

Praise his Almighty name,

milly

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