Genesis Provides an Argument for Evolution?

nuttypiglet · Jun 15, 2013

I am confused how you get to Adam being created on day three?
The word for day in Hebrew it seems means a period of undefined time. So I could effectively say I spent my DAY on the Earth alive. This would be the span of time which I was alive. When it makes a difference is when the time span is defined, as in Genesis 1:5 where it says evening and morning, the first day. It repeats this for the 6 days of creation. It is still quite a loose statement in that it doesn't say the morning that immediately followed the previous evening were the first day (24 hours). It could actually refer to billions of days.

Aman777 · Jun 15, 2013

Finally, I should like to ask you a personal favour. In this thread you have impliclty accused me of being evil, a liar, willfully ignorant and satanic. Therefore I would appreciate it if, in any repsonses to me, you not end them with the words "In Love". I find them, under the circumstances, a trifle hypocritical.

Deaqr Oph, Please go back and check and then tell everyone where I called YOU any of those names. What you are exposing is the fact that you are one of those people teaching the evil TOE. Aren't you?

In Love,
Aman

BTW, In Love is describing me in God. God is Love. It is Love to expose the Lie of Evolution as False. It's not pleasant but it is God's Truth.

Aman777 · Jun 15, 2013

nuttypiglet said:
I am confused how you get to Adam being created on day three?

Dear Nutty, Here is the Scriptural Proof. To be technical, Adam was NOT created at this time. He was formed as a Potter molds the clay. That's the Hebrew definition of the word "formed" used in Genesis 2:7.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The above verse is speaking of the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made according to Gen. 1:9-10

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

In order to confirm that Scripture is speaking of the 3rd Day, the above verses tell us it was BEFORE the plants, herbs, and rain GREW. Genesis 1:12 shows that the plants and herbs GREW on the 3rd Day. On this 3rd Day:

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Notice that the LORD God planted Trees AFTER man was formed. Again, the 3rd Day is confirmed since trees GREW on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:13

Can you tell us of another Day which fits the description given above?

The word for day in Hebrew it seems means a period of undefined time. So I could effectively say I spent my DAY on the Earth alive. This would be the span of time which I was alive. When it makes a difference is when the time span is defined, as in Genesis 1:5 where it says evening and morning, the first day. It repeats this for the 6 days of creation. It is still quite a loose statement in that it doesn't say the morning that immediately followed the previous evening were the first day (24 hours). It could actually refer to billions of days.

Click to expand...

Each of God's Days or Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in man's time. Today is God's 6th Day since God is still creating sinners in Christ. It takes the agreement of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to create each New creature in Christ.

We live today at Gen. 1:27 and we will NOT advance to 1:28 until AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth. Then the Prophecy of Gen. 1:28 will finally be fulfilled when ALL creatures become vegetarians. Gen. 1:29-30

Science has dated the beginning of our world at 13.7 Billion years ago. God tells us in Gen. 2:4 that it was on the 3rd Day that our Universe was made. Today being the 6th Day and 3 Days ago being the 3rd Day means that each of God's Ages is some 4.5 Billon years long, in man's time.

What is really interesting is the the 7th Day had no evening and no morning. That is because God has but 7 Days and the 7th is Eternity.

In Love,
Aman

Ophiolite · Jun 15, 2013

Aman777 said:
Deaqr Oph, Please go back and check and then tell everyone where I called YOU any of those names.

I very clearly stated that you had implicitly accused me of that. I trust you are not going to deny that. Here are the instances extracted from your first response to me.

Dear Oph, I agree that you don't have to believe Genesis in order to accept the Godless Theory of Evolution. <snip> It is a Lie of men, and easily refuted.

<snip>
The poor, ignorant, devotees of Evolism will be "willingly ignorant" of God's Truth.

<snip>
For this they willingly are ignorant

<snip> In spite of this, Evols STILL spew their satanic venom to innocent children <snip> . As a nation, we should be outraged, but after 150 years of teaching this Lie, most people don't even know what an evil it is.

Those are your words. You apply them to evolutionists. I am an evolutionist, therefore you have implicltly applied them to me.

Now, don't feel under any obligation to apologise. I don't value your opinion, so I am not offended. I would, however, appreciate your response to the main points I raised in my post.

Aman777 · Jun 15, 2013

Originally Posted by Aman777

Deaqr Oph, Please go back and check and then tell everyone where I called YOU any of those names.

Ophiolite said:
Ophiolite said:

I very clearly stated that you had implicitly accused me of that. I trust you are not going to deny that. Here are the instances extracted from your first response to me.

Click to expand...

Dear Oph, I agree that you don't have to believe Genesis in order to accept the Godless Theory of Evolution. <snip> It is a Lie of men, and easily refuted.

<snip>
The poor, ignorant, devotees of Evolism will be "willingly ignorant" of God's Truth. This was quoted from ll Peter 3:5

<snip>
For this they willingly are ignorant

<snip> In spite of this, Evols STILL spew their satanic venom to innocent children <snip> . As a nation, we should be outraged, but after 150 years of teaching this Lie, most people don't even know what an evil it is.

Those are your words. You apply them to evolutionists. I am an evolutionist, therefore you have implicltly applied them to me.

Click to expand...

Go back to the top of the page and you will find that YOU has been enlarged and bolded and underlined. I have NOT called YOU anything. YOU have falsely assumed that I was speaking of YOU, when I was discussing the false teaching of Godless Evols. I thought you were a nice lady, but I don't know why. It's probably your screen name. Looks kinda like Ophelia.

Now, don't feel under any obligation to apologise. I don't value your opinion, so I am not offended. I would, however, appreciate your response to the main points I raised in my post.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry that you are guilty of teaching the lies of evolution to innocent children. Repent now and ask God for forgiveness before you're shocked to discover this Truth at the Judgment. Have you been born again?

In Love,
Aman

nuttypiglet · Jun 15, 2013

Aman777 said:
nuttypiglet said:

I am confused how you get to Adam being created on day three?

Dear Nutty, Here is the Scriptural Proof. To be technical, Adam was NOT created at this time. He was formed as a Potter molds the clay. That's the Hebrew definition of the word "formed" used in Genesis 2:7.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The above verse is speaking of the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made according to Gen. 1:9-10

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

In order to confirm that Scripture is speaking of the 3rd Day, the above verses tell us it was BEFORE the plants, herbs, and rain GREW. Genesis 1:12 shows that the plants and herbs GREW on the 3rd Day. On this 3rd Day:

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Notice that the LORD God planted Trees AFTER man was formed. Again, the 3rd Day is confirmed since trees GREW on the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:13

Can you tell us of another Day which fits the description given above?

Each of God's Days or Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in man's time. Today is God's 6th Day since God is still creating sinners in Christ. It takes the agreement of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to create each New creature in Christ.

We live today at Gen. 1:27 and we will NOT advance to 1:28 until AFTER Jesus returns to this Earth. Then the Prophecy of Gen. 1:28 will finally be fulfilled when ALL creatures become vegetarians. Gen. 1:29-30

Science has dated the beginning of our world at 13.7 Billion years ago. God tells us in Gen. 2:4 that it was on the 3rd Day that our Universe was made. Today being the 6th Day and 3 Days ago being the 3rd Day means that each of God's Ages is some 4.5 Billon years long, in man's time.

What is really interesting is the the 7th Day had no evening and no morning. That is because God has but 7 Days and the 7th is Eternity.

In Love,
Aman

Click to expand...

genesis 1:1-1:31
In the beginning created Universe and Earth
Sculpted the Earth and gave light to the Universe
Now light was created, this was the first day. So the Universe could have took billions of years to
make, we just know the first day was after light was created.
day 2. Firmament
day 3 dry land, seas, grass, herb, fruit trees
day 4 stars became visible from the earth, with sun and moon as signs. Now Gods light was taken over by light from the Universe
day 5 birds, whales, and all water life. Ordered to fill the seas and the birds to fill the seas. Notice how God blessed them ALL.
day 6. Earth brought forth cattle, insects, beasts etc. Man. Man given dominion over other life. Notice here it says he made Male and Female humans. So this is showing it's just a summary. They were blessed, like all other life, and told to multiply. They didn't have children in Eden, so again, this is a short summary. Warned about the trees to eat, or not to eat.
So at the end of day 6, the Universe and Earth were finished.
Day 7 rested.

Chapter 2
Now we come to the generation, more detail.
No rain, so God caused a mist to water vegetation.
Man was created by God from elements of the Earth, and was lifeless. He planted a garden in Eden, and placed the lifeless body there. Now he gave the Man life.
Now explains the trees and rivers in detail.
Still no Eve, so going through details.
Adam allowed to name all life on Earth, because he was in charge of them. God named ADAM because he was in charge of him.
Now God created woman.
Chapter 3
Now the temptation and the fall.

So I am still confused how man was created on day 3. Chapter 2 is simply going over chapter one in different depths of detail.

nuttypiglet · Jun 15, 2013

Just to add. The word RIB can also mean SIDE. So I wonder if he took a complete side of Adam away, basically dissecting him in half, and then making Woman from it. Closing the wound could mean God created a new side for Adam.

Ophiolite · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
Originally Posted by Aman777 Deaqr Oph, Please go back and check and then tell everyone where I called YOU any of those names.

I have already clearly stated that you implictly "called me those names". At no time did I say you explicitly "called me those names", so asking me to cite where I did so is a strawman tactic.

I repeat, you asserted, in several passages that evolutionists were liars, willfully ignorant and satanic. Do you deny this? I am at a loss to see how you can, since your words are there for all to see.

Now I am an evolutionist, therefore you are implicitly stating that I am a liar, willfully ignorant and satanic. Do you understand that when you level a charge against a category of persons, you level it at all persons in that category?

Go back to the top of the page and you will find that YOU has been enlarged and bolded and underlined. I have NOT called YOU anything.YOU have falsely assumed that I was speaking of YOU, when I was discussing the false teaching of Godless Evols.

Not explicitly, but very definitely implicitly. There is no false assumption on my part. You were speaking of evolutionists - I am an evolutionist and therefore you were speaking of me.

I thought you were a nice lady, but I don't know why. It's probably your screen name. Looks kinda like Ophelia.

I am a nice gentleman. An ophiolite is a suite of rocks in which I am interested. If you think the sex of a poster is relevant, remember there are small symbols revealing that and other information besides.

I'm sorry that you are guilty of teaching the lies of evolution to innocent children. Repent now and ask God for forgiveness before you're shocked to discover this Truth at the Judgment. Have you been born again?

One of those littlle symbols identifies me as an agnostic. I should like it to have identified me as a devout agnostic, but that is not one of the options.
For the record, I do not directly teach evolution to innocent children in the classroom. I have, I hoped, helped some children to come to a better understanding of evolution through some of the science forums I am a member of. I certainly taught my own children the principles.

Remember, reality is that thing, which, when you stop believing in it, does not go away.

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

Ophiolite said:
Ophiolite said:

I have already clearly stated that you implictly "called me those names". At no time did I say you explicitly "called me those names", so asking me to cite where I did so is a strawman tactic.

Click to expand...

Dear Oph, I am sorry that you are so sensitive, and so eager to pounce. You better get used to it if you post to online message boards. I am very careful NOT to use ad hominem against my Godless opponants. They call me enough names and imply that I'm crazy without me being so stupid as to use tactics which will get me TOSd from the board.

Oph:>>I repeat, you asserted, in several passages that evolutionists were liars, willfully ignorant and satanic. Do you deny this? I am at a loss to see how you can, since your words are there for all to see.

Click to expand...

I don't deny that I have posted many times that the Theory of Evolution is a Lie which cannot be supported with evidence. NO Godless Evol has been able to show us evidence of their False Theory, and God's Truth is OPPOSITE of the False Theory they preach. This includes YOU. Your tactic seems to be "hurt feelings" because someone has the nerve to tell people God's Truth.

Oph:>>Now I am an evolutionist, therefore you are implicitly stating that I am a liar, willfully ignorant and satanic. Do you understand that when you level a charge against a category of persons, you level it at all persons in that category?

Click to expand...

Not so. There are rules against using ad hominem comments about the people you are debating. Is this your first Rodeo? Quit playing the "poor pity me" role and reply to the subject being discussed or some might think that you are a cry baby. Act like a man, or some might become confused and think that you are Ophelia, and not just a rock lover.

In Love,
Aman

BarryDesborough · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
I don't deny that I have posted many times that the Theory of Evolution is a Lie which cannot be supported with evidence. NO Godless Evol has been able to show us evidence of their False Theory, and God's Truth is OPPOSITE of the False Theory they preach.

Aman, see the thread and the debate on ERVs.

I'll have you know I attended Christchurch College of Further Education at Canterbury in England. The college was founded by the church, and is a stone's throw from Canterbury cathedral and the offices of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The staff are all Christians. They teach evolution, and even take students on visits to Down house. I'm sure they would be very offended indeed to hear you calling them "Godless evols."

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

BarryDesborough said:
BarryDesborough said:

Aman, see the thread and the debate on ERVs

Click to expand...

.

Dear Barry, I've tried but it's too boring. If I were to list all the details of my business, it would be boring to you, too.

Barry:>>I'll have you know I attended Christchurch College of Further Education at Canterbury in England. The college was founded by the church, and is a stone's throw from Canterbury cathedral and the offices of the Archbishop of Canterbury. The staff are all Christians. They teach evolution, and even take students on visits to Down house. I'm sure they would be very offended indeed to hear you calling them "Godless evols."

Click to expand...

Most people don't know what Evolution means. When asked, Evols say things like: It's the change in the allele frequency in a population over time, which is nothing but Adaptation or MicroEvolution. It sounds like evolution is nothing but a scientific measurement, which NO educator seems to question. In reality, most Godless Evols support Abiogenesis, which is magical chemical generation, or they support some other false assumption of men who reject God's Truth.

When Evols get right down to it, they begin to say really dumb things like we came from Nothing, as Stephen Hawking preaches. Evols will say ANYthing to support their Lie, that humans evolved from other creatures, because most of them are nothing but Godhaters, and will say anything if it's in favor of their worship of Evolutionism, and against God's Truth.

The good Educators have been fooled by the Lies of Evolution especially since most people have been "brain washed" since they were children to accept the Satanic Lies of Evolution forced upon them.

There are only two forces at work today. The good forces are of God. Those, apart from God, are evil. That's God's Truth.

In Love,
Aman

BarryDesborough · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear Barry, I've tried but it's too boring. If I were to list all the details of my business, it would be boring to you, too.

Most people don't know what Evolution means. When asked, Evols say things like: It's the change in the allele frequency in a population over time, which is nothing but Adaptation or MicroEvolution. It sounds like evolution is nothing but a scientific measurement, which NO educator seems to question. In reality, most Godless Evols support Abiogenesis, which is magical chemical generation, or they support some other false assumption of men who reject God's Truth.

When Evols get right down to it, they begin to say really dumb things like we came from Nothing, as Stephen Hawking preaches. Evols will say ANYthing to support their Lie, that humans evolved from other creatures, because most of them are nothing but Godhaters, and will say anything if it's in favor of their worship of Evolutionism, and against God's Truth.

The good Educators have been fooled by the Lies of Evolution especially since most people have been "brain washed" since they were children to accept the Satanic Lies of Evolution forced upon them.

There are only two forces at work today. The good forces are of God. Those, apart from God, are evil. That's God's Truth.

In Love,
Aman

Aman, let me assure you. You haven't got a cue.

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

Aman:>>The good Educators have been fooled by the Lies of Evolution especially since most people have been "brain washed" since they were children to accept the Satanic Lies of Evolution forced upon them.

There are only two forces at work today. The good forces are of God. Those, apart from God, are evil. That's God's Truth.

BarryDesborough said:
Aman, let me assure you. You haven't
got a cue.

Dear Barry, Could be a Typo or a realization that you have nothing in the way of actual evidence which supports the object of your worship.

I'm not looking for a cue or a clue. I already have God's Holy Word for it. I'm as certain for heaven as Jesus. Jesus told us:

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I believe in Jesus, which makes me immortal, eternal, and destined to live with Jesus forever. Do you believe the above verse?

In Love,
Aman

BarryDesborough · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
Aman:>>The good Educators have been fooled by the Lies of Evolution especially since most people have been "brain washed" since they were children to accept the Satanic Lies of Evolution forced upon them.

There are only two forces at work today. The good forces are of God. Those, apart from God, are evil. That's God's Truth.

Dear Barry, Could be a Typo or a realization that you have nothing in the way of actual evidence which supports the object of your worship.

I'm not looking for a cue or a clue. I already have God's Holy Word for it. I'm as certain for heaven as Jesus. Jesus told us:

John 11:26
And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?

I believe in Jesus, which makes me immortal, eternal, and destined to live with Jesus forever. Do you believe the above verse?

In Love,
Aman

Believe the fallible words of fallible men if you like. Just don't support the teaching of their fantasies as science to defenseless schoolchildren.

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

nuttypiglet said:
Just to add. The word RIB can also mean SIDE. So I wonder if he took a complete side of Adam away, basically dissecting him in half, and then making Woman from it. Closing the wound could mean God created a new side for Adam.

Dear Nutty, The Creator could take a single strand of DNA and duplicate all of us. Taking a rib would give Jesus all of the tissue He needed to build Eve completely out of Adam. Since man was FIRST made, Eve, was fashioned from Adam so that she would also be FIRST made.

This means that Adam (mankind) will have dominion over every other living creature, and mankind includes womankind, who was also a Special Creation fashioned by the Hands of Jesus, who is the ONLY God ever formed physically. Jesus is the ONLY God you will ever see. Colossians 2:9 KJV - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of - Bible Gateway

In Love,
Aman

Ophiolite · Jun 16, 2013

Aman,
as I have pointed out in a prior post I am not offended by your remarks. Rest assured it would take an argument, or person of substance to offend me online. I am, at most amused by what your resistance to my observations tells me.

I remind you that you have taken a small throw-away request at the end of my post, focused on that, and largely ignored the central points.

And please, stop dissembling, when you apply remarks to a category of persons you apply to all persons in that category, unless you add a caveat. You did not do so.

Now, frankly, I view being called a liar, willfully ignorant and satanic by yourself, as something of a badge of honour. What would disturb me now was if you were to say our world views were similar.

That was not my expectation when I began this short exchange. I had hoped to establish some common ground; to discover that we could both use logic even if we were to arrive at different conclusions. I now know - and I thank you for a clear demonstration - that you do not use logic.

As Barry has pointed out, many Christians are fully accepting of the theory of evolution. Indeed, gloablly the majority of the Christian denominations accept it. Some of the advances in evolutionary theory have been made by Christians. So please stop equating a belief in evoltuion with a disbelief in God. If you perist in doing so that will make you a liar. I wonder if you can be banned for an implicit ad hominem against yourself?

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

Ophiolite said:
As Barry has pointed out, many Christians are fully accepting of the theory of evolution.

Dear Oph, There is a big difference between those who call themselves Christians and those who have been born Spiritually. Since Barry is an avowed atheistic agnostic, he couldn't tell you a Christian from a Barn.

Oph:>>Indeed, gloablly the majority of the Christian denominations accept it. Some of the advances in evolutionary theory have been made by Christians.

How did you look into their hearts and determine such? God tells us the Spirit is like the wind, but YOU seem to be able to identify them. Do you accept ANYone who claims to be a Christian? How bout Mormons or JWs?

Oph:>>So please stop equating a belief in evoltuion with a disbelief in God. If you perist in doing so that will make you a liar. I wonder if you can be banned for an implicit ad hominem against yourself?

God tells us that He formed man of the dust of the ground. Evolution tells us that man evovled from other living creatures. In order to become a Christian one must believe that Jesus died for our sins, that He was buried and arose the 3rd Day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

These are the SAME Scriptures which tell us God made Adam with His Own Hands. Do you believe God's Holy Word or do you follow the Evol Lies of Satan?

In love,
Aman

BarryDesborough · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear Oph, There is a big difference between those who call themselves Christians and those who have been born Spiritually. Since Barry is an avowed atheistic agnostic, he couldn't tell you a Christian from a Barn.

Oh, I can spot the fruitcakes. Everyone can, except the fruitcakes themselves!

Ophiolite · Jun 16, 2013

Aman777 said:
How did you look into their hearts and determine such? God tells us the Spirit is like the wind, but YOU seem to be able to identify them.

Until and unless the extremist elements of Christianity can stop the incestuous warfare and reach agreement on what constitutes a Christian I shall generally accept it when an individual or denomination tell me they are Christian. It's a weakness of mine: I trust people. If you have a problem with that you should take it up with them, not me.

God tells us that He formed man of the dust of the ground. Evolution tells us that man evovled from other living creatures. In order to become a Christian one must believe that Jesus died for our sins, that He was buried and arose the 3rd Day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

1. There is no requirement to accept either of the Geneis accounts as literal.

2. Point me to a passage in scriptue that defines a Christian in that manner. To the best of my knowledge Christians are mentioned only two or three times. Paul talks of the first use of the term applied to a gathering of disciples in Antioch, in Acts. Peter, I think, speaks of suffering as a Christian. There may be one or two further instances.

The early Christians followed the teachings of Christ. I'm asking you to educate me. Cite where in scripture the beliefs you hold are defined as a requirement.

Aman777 · Jun 16, 2013

Ophiolite said:
Until and unless the extremist elements of Christianity can stop the incestuous warfare and reach agreement on what constitutes a Christian I shall generally accept it when an individual or denomination tell me they are Christian. It's a weakness of mine: I trust people. If you have a problem with that you should take it up with them, not me.

Dear Oph, Scripture defines a Christian. Here it is:

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

ONLY those who have been born Spiritually are Christians. That's WHY Jesus said You MUST be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God. Those who have been born of His Spirit are visible only to God. Scripture tells us to "try the Spirits"

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Your idea that we are to accept everyone by faith is UnScriptural.

1. There is no requirement to accept either of the Geneis accounts as literal.

The only requirement for sinners is that they believe in Jesus Christ. This comes after God gives them the Gift of Faith to believe in the Power of God unto Salvation, which IS the Gospel of Jesus Christ, according the Scriptures, which you deny. Can you tell us HOW to become a Christian apart from Faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures?

2. Point me to a passage in scriptue that defines a Christian in that manner. To the best of my knowledge Christians are mentioned only two or three times. Paul talks of the first use of the term applied to a gathering of disciples in Antioch, in Acts. Peter, I think, speaks of suffering as a Christian. There may be one or two further instances.

A Christian is a sinner who has been forgiven of his sins by his Faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures. You can cut off the requirement to believe according to the Scriptures but that doesn't change God's Holy Word. Does it?

The early Christians followed the teachings of Christ. I'm asking you to educate me. Cite where in scripture the beliefs you hold are defined as a requirement.

I already have. All you have to do to refute me is to show us HOW to become a Christian apart from God's Holy Word. Otherwise, the Bible believing Christians on this board will take you apart Scripturally. That's what we do to phonies....too.

In doing so, we are following Jesus who never sinned. He was angry but sinned Not, because righteous indignation against unbelief, is NOT a sin.

In Love,
Aman

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