Genesis Creation OR THIS?

Once there were two brothers. The first was brilliant; graduated college at 19, studied at the finest universities and went on to make remarkable discoveries in the field of astrophysics. The other had no mind for studying and preferred poetry or day dreaming. The first was celebrated worldwide for his amazing intellect and sound reasoning. The second found Jesus, turned his life over to the Lord and lived a quiet, selfless existence of service to others. Upon their deaths, <snip>

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The first brother offered a far larger service to others.

The first discovered things that benefited millions, the second did what exactly? Did he live in a monastery, like a Monk and rely on the workers to look after him?

paulm50 said:

If god God cares for all his creation. He has a very funny and bad way of showing it.

1. He wouldn't be relying on the church.
2. He wouldn't be relying on the bible.
3. He wouldn't be relying on you and I.

1. Is guilty of more abuses than you can throw a stick at. Christians are still debating what church to go to, whic is better than killing each other over the debate.
2. Mish Mash of inaccurate books.
3. We aren't up to the task.

4. It requires god to come back, and take control. Not by killing us all without telling us why and relying on Ancient Scribes to make up a story out of a natural event.

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Human wisdom must also evolve just as life has been governed the the relative over control of evolution. If we could go back in time and look at what the earth looked like as dinosaurs bodies has become to large for there tiny brains, when there wasn't enough food in the decimated forest, forcing land animals back into the seas in search of food, we might be tempted to complain about what a poor technique evolution had for eventually producing man.

Colter said:

Human wisdom must also evolve just as life has been governed the the relative over control of evolution. If we could go back in time and look at what the earth looked like as dinosaurs bodies has become to large for there tiny brains, when there wasn't enough food in the decimated forest, forcing land animals back into the seas in search of food, we might be tempted to complain about what a poor technique evolution had for eventually producing man.

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Evolution makes no claims to be perfect or intelligent design. We leave it to the creationists to make that claim.

The most obvious example is the Giant Panda, an animal that evolved into something that only has one diet, which is poor and doesn't like sex that much.

One can look back and quote more, Sabre tooth tiger, Dire wolf, even a carnivorous Kangaroo.

As for Man, not a very intelligent design until you get to the brain. Man evolved though, changing appearance to suit the local nature, developing an immune system to fight local diseases. Stick a White Man in Africa before the days of sun cream and malaria tablets and they never lasted long. When Europeans went to foreign lands, they took diseases with them and wiped out many of the population. Evolution at work correcting it's own mistakes. No need for a mythical god. If there was one, he would of done an intelligent design job.

paulm50 said:

Evolution makes no claims to be perfect or intelligent design. We leave it to the creationists to make that claim.

The most obvious example is the Giant Panda, an animal that evolved into something that only has one diet, which is poor and doesn't like sex that much.

One can look back and quote more, Sabre tooth tiger, Dire wolf, even a carnivorous Kangaroo.

As for Man, not a very intelligent design until you get to the brain. Man evolved though, changing appearance to suit the local nature, developing an immune system to fight local diseases. Stick a White Man in Africa before the days of sun cream and malaria tablets and they never lasted long. When Europeans went to foreign lands, they took diseases with them and wiped out many of the population. Evolution at work correcting it's own mistakes. No need for a mythical god. If there was one, he would of done an intelligent design job.

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I was conceding that imperfect,no complete religion evolves out of superstitious fear as a kind of scaffolding for the emergence of real truth.

Givemeareason said:

You are suggesting a brilliant astrophysicist who made remarkable discoveries in astrophysics and was world reknown for his sound reasoning would stoop to the level of rejecting, scorning and teaching against God. Must have become pretty bored with astrophysics for that to be the case. People who make large contributions to science don't generally stoop to such behavior. People who have credentials might but that's probably because they have become figureheads in the ant-theistic debate. You are making a stereotype in which you are claiming that all high minded people of intellectual pursuit but who are not Christian and probably couldn't care less are all doomed for hell. You are equating people of intelligence being hell-bound and raising suspicions against intelligent people.

Did you get this story from some loud mouth preacher or something?

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I get the impression from some religionists that you either believe in their particular religion, and worship their particular god, or your are that fool that is "corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good". You are denying, rejecting, scorning, and teaching against their particular religion.

There is no grey area.

Colter said:

I was conceding that imperfect,no complete religion evolves out of superstitious fear as a kind of scaffolding for the emergence of real truth.

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The "real truth" being your particular religion.

Consider me sceptical of that claim.

Davian said:

I get the impression from some religionists that you either believe in their particular religion, and worship their particular god, or your are that fool that is "corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good". You are denying, rejecting, scorning, and teaching against their particular religion.

There is no grey area.

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Well, when you think about it, folks who have faith beliefs based on personal experiences and little to no evidence, will tend to get more defensive when their belief is questioned, vs the folks that believe in things with some objective evidence to support the same. The faith belief must be protected with defense mechanisms and when you get into the fundies, then the defense mechanisms are usually off the charts.

Colter said:

I was conceding that imperfect,no complete religion evolves out of superstitious fear as a kind of scaffolding for the emergence of real truth.

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The people who offer an answer to a fear, sometime add in non existent fears to make people more scared. Then imaginary rewards for doing as they're told. In order to get control.
It's a proven formula which has worked for any religion and works today.

As for real truth, that's superfluous. As Judaism proved. The notion that they came up with the right answer, after and before so many wrong ones have proven to produce stronger societies, proves that Jews were not the chosen people.

Unless being a not chosen people gives more rewards.

bhsmte said:

Well, when you think about it, folks who have faith beliefs based on personal experiences and little to no evidence, will tend to get more defensive when their belief is questioned, vs the folks that believe in things with some objective evidence to support the same. The faith belief must be protected with defense mechanisms and when you get into the fundies, then the defense mechanisms are usually off the charts.

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Those who belive in science, have something new everyday to prove them right. People who believe in religion, any of them, are stuck. so have to keep going around say "No, where it really means is ............................." Filling in the gaps with the latest interpretation or making one up, even if it has no bearing on what's writtem.

paulm50 said:

The people who offer an answer to a fear, sometime add in non existent fears to make people more scared. Then imaginary rewards for doing as they're told. In order to get control.
It's a proven formula which has worked for any religion and works today.

As for real truth, that's superfluous. As Judaism proved. The notion that they came up with the right answer, after and before so many wrong ones have proven to produce stronger societies, proves that Jews were not the chosen people.

Unless being a not chosen people gives more rewards.
Those who belive in science, have something new everyday to prove them right. People who believe in religion, any of them, are stuck. so have to keep going around say "No, where it really means is ............................." Filling in the gaps with the latest interpretation or making one up, even if it has no bearing on what's writtem.

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Between the agreement with Abram and Jesus a great deal of human speculation colored the evolution of Judaism. A predicted people became a chosen people. A predicted land became a chosen nation. A gift of revelation in the Son became a Messiah specifically for the self proclaimed chosen people. The original Gospel of salvation by faith for all mankind became a human sacrifice of an inocent man to redeem man from the Satan God.

Colter said:

Between the agreement with Abram and Jesus a great deal of human speculation colored the evolution of Judaism. A predicted people became a chosen people. A predicted land became a chosen nation. A gift of revelation in the Son became a Messiah specifically for the self proclaimed chosen people. The original Gospel of salvation by faith for all mankind became a human sacrifice of an inocent man to redeem man from the Satan God.

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More nonsense. The Jews were a minor tribe. Kicked around by anyone who wanted to. Until excluded from what were regarded as decent trades, they became bankers. Even then second class citizens.

Israel was ruled by everyone but the Jews, until the West gave them the land back and now protect them with funding. If anyone in the region are the chosen people, it's the Muslims, they have the oil and power. The Ottomoon Empire is the largest in the region. Christianity 2200 million 30.70% of the World population, Islam 600 million 22.32%, Judaism 14 million 0.20%.

So it's better to be on the side with the best guns, failing that. The most oil.

Christianity is the World largest because it's a European based religion and we have the best Armies, guns and all the power. Go bacl 100 years and we had it all. Go back to 16th Century when we started to Colonise the other populations. We had little to stop us. It wasn't because we were Christians. And the Jews aren't powerful or not, because their a chosen people.

Are you going to tell us as gods chosen people, he allowed other religions, who had nothing to do with him, to kill, rape and steal from them?

Maybe it's god's punishment, the Jews knew, didn't worship hard enough. so god got a lot of Pagans to kick them around. As a Christian do you think that's could be the case, and what if you don't measure up to his high standards?

Of course I understand the possibility of satan being stronger than god. Maybe he made the Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, Muslims and lastly the British run Israel and throw the Jews around the World.