Future of non-denominational churches

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

Why should I become a catholic? The reason so many non-denominational churches believe different things is because they were taught by using snippets from the bible instead of using the snippets in context.

Isaiah 26:8 · Sep 19, 2003

one thing i have a problem with...you say the church is infallible, protected by the Holy Spirit from going the wrong way or teaching the wrong things or whatever...then how do you explain the corruption of the church in martin luther's church? wether or not you agree with martin luther, can you deny that there was corruption in the church? if you can not, then how do you line that up with the church's infallibility because of the protection of the Holy Spirit?

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
Why should I become a catholic? The reason so many non-denominational churches believe different things is because they were taught by using snippets from the bible instead of using the snippets in context.

How do you know you are teaching the truth?

cindylou · Sep 19, 2003

First, let me address the simple point that Jesus instituted the Church when he left this earth. He left the Apostles, with Peter as head, in charge of teaching the Gospel. I have read many writings of our Apostolic Fathers and have discovered that division in the Church was a problem almost from the beginning. The Apostles were left to face many issues from accepting Gentiles, to valid baptism, even sexual abuse. Many documents have been written addressing the unity of the Church. This is not meant to offend any Protestant out there, but simply put Christ left us with One Church. The Roman Catholic Church can trace her roots back to the Apostles. Unfortunately, even from the beginning men wished to "be in charge" and came up with new twists on ancient beliefs. These are called heresies. Many still exist today in so-called Protestant religions. The Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in the Trinity as do the Jehovah's Witnesses. This is only one example. Some do not believe the divinity of Christ and the list goes on. Protestant churches spring up around division, confusion and heresy. St. Cyprian of Carthage addressed this in 251 A.D. He said "If someone does not hold fast to this unity of t he Church, can he imagine that he stills holds the faith? If he resists and withstands the Church, can he still be confident that he is the Church, when the blessed Apostle Paul teaches this very thing and displays the sacred sign of unity when he says: 'One body and one spirti, one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one Baptism, one God'? (Ep 4:4-6)....Let no one mislead the brotherhood with a lie, let no one corrupt the faith by a faithless perversion of the truth." Has there always been corruption in the Church? Probably. Many people have left and started there own "following" This will continue, I am afaid, until Christ's triumphant return. As for me, I will follow the path laid down for me by the Apostles, not by Martin Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, or the host of others.
Cindy

Hoonbaba · Sep 19, 2003

Uh oh...I hope we don't suddenly turn this into some sort of denominational bashing

God bless!

-Jason

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

Hoonbaba said:
Uh oh...I hope we don't suddenly turn this into some sort of denominational bashing

God bless!

-Jason

That's not the intention. Just sharing information.

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

Metanoia02 said:
How do you know you are teaching the truth?

In reply to your question.... have you read the bible in it's context? that is how i know i am teaching the truth - i have studied not just listened to what other people are teaching me. I have a brain and I can crasp the concept of things so i know i am teaching the truth.

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
In reply to your question.... have you read the bible in it's context? that is how i know i am teaching the truth - i have studied not just listened to what other people are teaching me. I have a brain and I can crasp the concept of things so i know i am teaching the truth.

Who taught you how to read in context? Have you ever disagreed with something you had been taught? Was the teacher wrong or were you just right?

BTW, we all have a brain and most people can grasp the concept of things. But that doesn't mean they all teach the truth. The truth is not based on brain power, ability to reason or literacy.

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

reading in context means reading a verse within it's chapter, my teachers at the bible school taught me to read in context.
Yes i have argued things from the bible and have been proved wrong - it is a learning experience.
I know that the truth is not based on brain power or ability to reason but on the facts that you are given - if you use your brain to process the facts then you will have the truth. It's quite simple.

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
reading in context means reading a verse within it's chapter, my teachers at the bible school taught me to read in context.
Yes i have argued things from the bible and have been proved wrong - it is a learning experience.
I know that the truth is not based on brain power or ability to reason but on the facts that you are given - if you use your brain to process the facts then you will have the truth. It's quite simple.

Where did your teachers learn to read the way they taught you?
If you have been taught the truth through a series of teachers, there must have been a beginning. Can you trace the line of teachers you learn from back to Jesus? I can.

If you have been proven wrong in the past how can you be sure you have all the truth now?

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

The teachers learnt from the teachers who taught them - and yes if i wanted to i could trace it all the way back to the creation!!!!
I can't be 100% sure but like i said it is a learning experience, i learn something new everyday. How can you be sure what you believe in is true?

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
The teachers learnt from the teachers who taught them - and yes if i wanted to i could trace it all the way back to the creation!!!!
I can't be 100% sure but like i said it is a learning experience, i learn something new everyday. How can you be sure what you believe in is true?

Because I can trace the line of teachers I follow back to Peter who was given the keys to the kingdom. The same Peter that Christ turned over leadership to when he was ready to return to his Father in heaven. The gates of hell have never prevailed against the Church that Peter built. It teaches the same truth about Christ, 2000 years later. That is the Church I have learned from, it was guarenteed by Christ.

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

okay fair enough but can you trace your line all the way back to creation???? Everything spoken through Jesus was spoken by God - everything from creation onward was spoken by God so therefore you need to trace back to the beginning.
Are you a member of the catholic church? Also do they not pray to Mary?

Metanoia02 · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
okay fair enough but can you trace your line all the way back to creation???? Everything spoken through Jesus was spoken by God - everything from creation onward was spoken by God so therefore you need to trace back to the beginning.
Are you a member of the catholic church? Also do they not pray to Mary?

Yes , I am Catholic.

Then we "pray" to Mary, we are asking for her to pray for us. This is not the same way we pray to God. It is not an act of worship. We do not acknowledge Mary to be Divine. She is not equal to God. We do believe she is God's most perfect creation, the Mother of our Lord,but she is still human just like we are.

Although we are encouraged to ask for Mary to pray for us, we are not compelled to do so in order to be Catholic.

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

Why do you pray to Mary???? How can she possibly pray for you and where in the Bible does it say pray to mary? She may be the mother of Jesus but God is the ultimate being - He should be the one we are praying too and asking for blessings from.

Lotar · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
Why do you pray to Mary???? How can she possibly pray for you and where in the Bible does it say pray to mary? She may be the mother of Jesus but God is the ultimate being - He should be the one we are praying too and asking for blessings from.

There's a topic for this in the IDD forum

I don't know how the non-denoms work in the south, but here there is definately authority, theology, and doctrine. The churches here aren't completely seperated, we work very much together and have pastors guest speak at eachothers churches. Also many are involved in a loose organization, like Calvary Chapel.
Non-denominational churches tend to give more authority to the pastor, rather than the eldars, or church board.

Reader Nilus · Sep 19, 2003

There are no dead in Christ, for one. Have you ever asked for prayer at your parish, or gathering? Have you ever asked anyone ever to pray for you? Do you pray for other people? We do not pray to Mary, we ask the Ever-Virgin Mary to pray for us, as we ask others who have gone ahead to their reward to pray for the us the great cloud of witnesses the writer of Hebrews refered to the saints as. The Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary is as close to us now as the person next to you on Sunday morning, and she does intercede for us, so yes we ask for her prayers.
Jeff the Finn

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

I find that extremely strange - how can you pray too someone who is dead???? God is ever living so obviously pray to Him, but I don't see the point in praying to Mary - and no one answered my question on whether the bible has a passage that says pray to mary.

nyj · Sep 19, 2003

beetlequeendiva said:
I find that extremely strange - how can you pray too someone who is dead????

So those who have been made alive in Christ are dead? What a bum wrap.

beetlequeendiva · Sep 19, 2003

They are in Heaven but how can you possibly pray to someone in heaven - and still no passage to say that praying to Mary is okay. You pray to God because He answers your prayers - Mary does not.

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