From Where do the RCC and the EOC get the Authority they claim for themselves?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 8, 2009

Honestly, do you really not get the gist of the analogy Josiah uses, or do you think playing innocently ignorant fools anybody?

[LLOJ pops in and pops back out again]

http://www.scripture4all.org/

1 Corin 12:1 About yet the spiritual-things brethren! not I am willing ye to be being ignorant/agnoein <50> (5721).

1 Thess 4:13 Yet not we are willing ye to be being ignorant/agnoein <50> (5721) brethren! about the ones reposing that no ye may be being sorrowed according as also the rest of those no having hope

Textus Rec.) 1 Thessalonians 4:13 ou qelw de umaV agnoein adelfoi peri twn kekoimhmenwn ina mh luphsqe kaqwV kai oi loipoi oi mh econteV elpida

50. agnoeo ag-no-eh'-o from 1 (as a negative particle) and 3539; not to know (through lack of information or intelligence); by implication, to ignore (through disinclination):--(be) ignorant(-ly), not know, not understand, unknown.

Albion · Jan 8, 2009

racer said:
No, remember who asked the question? It was me, and I'm not asking about the above mentioned denominations. I am specifically asking about the RCC and EOC. These are the only denominations (I know, they're not really denominations) that claim infallibility and hold Tradition to be equal to Scripture. So, I am specifically addressing those churches.

I thought the question was about the EO and RC. Now I am thinking it was really asked of the EO and RC (meaning, its members here).

They're not going to go beyond the pet words you asked not to be used, you know. They never do, which I think is because they aren't able to. It confuses them when we push into "What does that really mean to you?" territory.

Tu Es Petrus · Jan 8, 2009

racer said:
From Where do the RCC and the EOC get the Authority they claim for themselves?

From Jesus Christ.

Ask a straight question, get a straight answer.

Next question, please.

.

calluna · Jan 8, 2009

Tu Es Petrus said:
From Jesus Christ.

JWs say the very same.

Rdr Iakovos · Jan 8, 2009

calluna said:
JWs say the very same.

So do Protestants.

Uphill Battle · Jan 8, 2009

Tu Es Petrus said:
From Jesus Christ.

Ask a straight question, get a straight answer.

Next question, please.

.

I didn't miss this part of the OP: Simple one word comments like "Jesus," "Tradition," "Scripture," won't suffice so don't waste your time, please.

so I reposted it for your benefit.

Uphill Battle · Jan 8, 2009

Rdr Iakovos said:
So do Protestants.

most protestants don't claim sole authority over all of christendom, from what I recall.

Rdr Iakovos · Jan 8, 2009

Interesting thread, the heckling from the termninally nonplussed began even before a single answer had been given by either RC or EO. I note that the OP did not correct same for offering something other than what the OP asked.

Where does ANY Christian believe that their authority comes from?
Jesus Christ.

What is the VEHICLE by which authority has come down through time?
That is where different sects divide.
So freakin' what.

As an aside: as an EO Christian, I believe that the authority still resides with Christ: not in a man, not in a book. Said authority has been given to administrate (read the gospels, folks).

I'd like to thank CJ for the auto-generated smarmy comment which equates EO and RC with JWs.
/cue deflections

Rdr Iakovos · Jan 8, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
I didn't miss this part of the OP: Simple one word comments like "Jesus," "Tradition," "Scripture," won't suffice so don't waste your time, please.

so I reposted it for your benefit.

For your benefit: "Jesus Christ" is a two letter response.

Rdr Iakovos · Jan 8, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
most protestants don't claim sole authority over all of christendom, from what I recall.

Judging by what I see on Christian Forums, I'd disagree.

calluna · Jan 8, 2009

racer said:
Maybe just new to our discussions.

If proffering a retrospective list of names makes for compelling evidence of Petrine succession, one would have to be very new.

calluna · Jan 8, 2009

Rdr Iakovos said:
So do Protestants.

On the basis of theology and virtue, not unproved 'real estate'.

Chesterton · Jan 8, 2009

racer said:
Honestly, do you really not get the gist of the analogy Josiah uses, or do you think playing innocently ignorant fools anybody?

Thanks for assuming that I might be playing a fool. Incorrect, but charitable.

I guess I really don't get the gist. He must have mentioned RC and LDS in the same sentence about 100 times in the SS thread. Best I can tell it's either a kind of smear tactic, or he believes that the fact that they both claim authority means that both claims are equally invalid. No?

Uphill Battle · Jan 8, 2009

Rdr Iakovos said:
For your benefit: "Jesus Christ" is a two letter response.

I think you meant two word. But Touché.

Rdr Iakovos said:
Judging by what I see on Christian Forums, I'd disagree.

again, Touché.

Orville said:
Just because the thread author is biased with a grudge to gripe over, and just because she claims the answer is not sufficient, does not mean the answer is not sufficient.

perhaps. But if it is a specific response/non-repsonse specified in the OP, why would someone then answer exactly contrary? Other than to antagonize the one that is antagonizing them, I can see no reason.

People can try and set up a scenario which pleases their particular myopia, but it doesn't mean their word is gospel, nor that their direction of discussion must be followed in lock-step..

I don't think anyone stated that their word WAS gospel.

but if asking what, other then "Hey, Jesus did it" is so onerous, perhaps then, they shouldn't paraticipate in the thread at all.

meh, whatever.

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 8, 2009

Chesterton said:
Thanks for assuming that I might be playing a fool. Incorrect, but charitable.

I guess I really don't get the gist. He must have mentioned RC and LDS in the same sentence about 100 times in the SS thread. Best I can tell it's either a kind of smear tactic, or he believes that the fact that they both claim authority means that both claims are equally invalid. No?

Those 2 Denominations get a lot of attention here on both CF and the CARM forum

racer · Jan 8, 2009

Chesterton said:
Of course that was a trapping question, so why wait, Ill spell it out.

If you say yes, Mormons are Christians, then you hold heretical beliefs.

If you say no, then by considering the LDS and the RC, EO and OO as having equivalent authority (none, or worse than none) and being otherwise equivalent, youre saying there was no Christianity for 1,500 years after Christ. Youre saying the blood of the early martyrs was spilled as folly. Christ said he was founding a Church; he said hed send the Holy Spirit to guide it, and you make Christ a liar.

Feel free to make any comments which make you feel better, however, are you going to attempt to address the OP?

Chesterton · Jan 8, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Those 2 Denominations get a lot of attention here on both CF and the CARM forum

I'm sure Joseph Smith must be quite proud.

Chesterton · Jan 8, 2009

racer said:
Feel free to make any comments which make you feel better, however, are you going to attempt to address the OP?

I can't address the OP, because the OP excludes the only answer - Jesus Christ. What other possible authority could any church which calls itself Christian have?

racer · Jan 8, 2009

Kristos said:
I don't think that is correct wrt EO.

So what authority are we talking about here?

Authority to exist?

Authority to govern themselves?

Authority to make dogma?

Authority to bind and loose sins?

What?

What authority does your church profess for itself? One of the above or all of the above? Whichever it is, from where does your Church get this authority?

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 8, 2009

Chesterton said:
I'm sure Joseph Smith must be quite proud.

One good thing I can say for the Orthodox is they have neither a Pope or JS.....

edit to add: Actually I could say a lot of good things about the Orthodox...

From Where do the RCC and the EOC get the Authority they claim for themselves?

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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