From the Reformed perspective, could the world be a simulation?

Sentosa · May 5, 2018

There's an idea in cosmology today that the world is a deterministic computer simulation. Actually, it goes back to Plato (the allegory of the cave) and Chaung-tzu (the allegory of the dream). In the modern version, it is believed that the world is holographic in some way, that the 'real world' lies somewhere else, and everything that happens in our world is predetermined by whoever created the simulation. The idea can also be seen in the movie The Matrix. Obviously, there are some parallels to any deterministic belief system. The primary difference seems to be the emphasis on the holographic aspect of our immediate world. What do Reformed theologians think? Could the world be a deterministic hologram?

Radagast · May 5, 2018

Sentosa said:
There's an idea in cosmology today that the world is a deterministic computer simulation.

Simulated by who?

If you take the computer out of this, it becomes philosophic idealism of the kind that occurs in advaita Hinduism ("there is no spoon"). No Christian can accept this, because it denies Creation.

Sentosa · May 5, 2018

Radagast said:
Simulated by who?

If you take the computer out of this, .

Simulated by whomever you wish. If you want to use God the Creator, then fine. I'm not taking the computer out of it; I'm putting the computer, or some extremely advanced version, in it.

Radagast · May 5, 2018

Sentosa said:
Simulated by whomever you wish. If you want to use God the Creator, then fine. I'm not taking the computer out of it; I'm putting the computer, or some extremely advanced version, in it.

Well, if you postulate a race of computer-builders independent of God, that's utterly heretical.

If you postulate a race of computer-builders created by God, that's still completely heretical. First, because it denies that God created the universe we see; and second, because these "computer-builders" are not in the Bible.

This doesn't seem to me a serious question.

akaDaScribe · May 5, 2018

Sentosa said:
There's an idea in cosmology today that the world is a deterministic computer simulation. Actually, it goes back to Plato (the allegory of the cave) and Chaung-tzu (the allegory of the dream). In the modern version, it is believed that the world is holographic in some way, that the 'real world' lies somewhere else, and everything that happens in our world is predetermined by whoever created the simulation. The idea can also be seen in the movie The Matrix. Obviously, there are some parallels to any deterministic belief system. The primary difference seems to be the emphasis on the holographic aspect of our immediate world. What do Reformed theologians think? Could the world be a deterministic hologram?

The idea of a computer simulation having similarities to how God created everything has some merit.

The fact that a simulated universe could be made on a computer and that it is driven by a language should raise some eye brows. I don’t think that seeing this parallel requires any additional assumptions such as holographic images, being deterministic, assuming we are not part of the program, or that there is a linear process of processing information.

More and more video games are moving from point based 3d art to what is called voxels. Minecraft is voxel based I believe. In short it, means they are now moving towards making everything out of the equivalence of particles.

To me the craziest part is that God spoke and it was so. Everything on the computers is based on languages. And technically, everything in the sim is something made out of nothing.

JM · May 5, 2018

Alvin Plantinga's 'Reformed Epistemology' uses that analogy but I do not believe he is actually saying. You can sort through this if you like.

r/ChristianApologetics - [Reformed] Is Alvin Plantinga's Reformed Epistemology a type of presuppositionalism?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Apologetic_Warrior · May 5, 2018

JM said:
Alvin Plantinga's 'Reformed Epistemology' uses that analogy but I do not believe he is actually saying. You can sort through this if you like.

r/ChristianApologetics - [Reformed] Is Alvin Plantinga's Reformed Epistemology a type of presuppositionalism?

Yours in the Lord,

jm

Plantinga...is an enigma...especially his decision to teach at a Catholic college (Notre Dame) for several years, and then back to Calvin college. No clue on the details behind the flip flop, but it arouses the curiosity.

nonaeroterraqueous · May 5, 2018

Sentosa said:
What do Reformed theologians think? Could the world be a deterministic hologram?

I can only speak for myself when I say that the determinism of Calvinistic thought implies that God knows a greater, more real, reality than ours. That doesn't make our reality fake, though. It also doesn't mean we're really somewhere else, merely imagining ourselves in this world. Our world is just as real as we think it is, but it's not as real as God. This is not a simulation, and no computer, apart from the mind of God, is involved.

St. Helens · May 5, 2018

An an analogy it has some merit -very little merit at that. This world isn't a similation. It's the real deal. The allegory proves deficient. We actually live in a world that God created. God is sovereign and He knows what is around the corner . He also knows the bent of every person's heart.

Radagast · May 6, 2018

nonaeroterraqueous said:
I can only speak for myself when I say that the determinism of Calvinistic thought implies that God knows a greater, more real, reality than ours.

Huh?

Radagast · May 6, 2018

Grumman Tomcat said:
This world isn't a similation. It's the real deal. The allegory proves deficient. We actually live in a world that God created. God is sovereign and He knows what is around the corner . He also knows the bent of every person's heart.

Exactly.

nonaeroterraqueous · May 6, 2018

Radagast said:
Huh?

God made the universe.
Therefore God is not contained by the universe.
Therefore, he exists within a greater reality beyond the universe.

I'm wondering how you thought God could predestine anything in our world if he didn't see it from a bigger picture than ours, or how any mechanism within the reality that we know could explain creation, predestination, or any godly power. None of those things are within our realm, as if we could build a bigger, better machine that could somehow harness it. Ergo, such mechanisms, and God himself, exist within a different reality that is beyond our grasp.

Radagast · May 6, 2018

nonaeroterraqueous said:
God made the universe.

Yes.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Therefore God is not contained by the universe.

Yes.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Therefore, he exists within a greater reality beyond the universe.

False. God is a greater reality beyond the universe. To say that God is contained in some other reality is heretical.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
I'm wondering how you thought God could predestine anything in our world

Predestination is explained by the fact that God created the universe.

nonaeroterraqueous · May 6, 2018

Radagast said:
False. God is a greater reality beyond the universe. To say that God is contained in some other reality is heretical.

I didn't say he was contained by anything. I didn't say it, because I don't believe it. I said, "Therefore, he exists within a greater reality beyond the universe." Perhaps it's a little nuanced, but that does not equal containment. The point that I was getting at was that God is contained by nothing but himself, and that he is a greater reality beyond our universe. If you don't believe me, I have my opinion documented from December, 2008, and it hasn't changed:

Parallel Universes | Nonaeroterraqueous

Radagast said:
Predestination is explained by the fact that God created the universe.

No, it isn't. You don't know the mechanism. You don't know the mechanism of creation, and you don't know the mechanism of predestination. You don't even know if predestination is a temporal act or an original one, or if there's any difference.

Radagast · May 6, 2018

nonaeroterraqueous said:
I didn't say he was contained by anything. I didn't say it, because I don't believe it. I said, "Therefore, he exists within a greater reality beyond the universe." Perhaps it's a little nuanced, but that does not equal containment.

OK, then. I just found your wording confusing.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
No, it isn't. You don't know the mechanism. You don't know the mechanism of creation, and you don't know the mechanism of predestination.

Yes, but God does.

From the Reformed perspective, could the world be a simulation?

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