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It seems that you think not. It seems that all you think you need to do is reject it out of hand because 'it's obvious'.I don't need to.
Love is an emotion. I don't think we can 'programme' emotions. But let's say it was possible. Do you tell the robot to choose who to love?Yes, answer the question of why a robot can't love.
I have already refuted the arguement for no free will. As mentioned, its based on an unfounded assumption that determinism is true.It seems that you think not. It seems that all you think you need to do is reject it out of hand because 'it's obvious'.
In which case you're not only wasting your time but mine. If you have nothing to offer then please, and I'm asking nicely, stop posting.
Yes thats the determinist view. Many happen to disagree with it. There are a number of views such as Hard Determinism, Soft Determinism and Compatablists as well as the standard Free Will and Libertarian Free Will. So take your pick. I don't think any have definite evidence.@stevevw
Whatever is influencing the way in which you will choose, is what's really doing the choosing for you always.
Unles you are going to suggest that we can ever be free to make a choice that is always going to be free of any kind of influence.
God Bless.
I'll not be responding to you further. I can't wate this much time.I have already refuted the arguement for no free will. As mentioned, its based on an unfounded assumption that determinism is true.
I gave the example of how quantum physics shows at the fundemental level reality is indeterminant. For Hard Determinism to work all reality from the macro to the micro needs to be deterministic. Otherwise we don't know.
This is especially relevant into that ironically some interpretations of QM actually suggests free will with observers choice creating reality. In fact most interpretations make reality weird and probablistic. Even the Many Worlds where we each new collapses creates an alternative world where theres another you and me living a slighjtly different life. So at the very least your self assured assumption that determinism is true is not so sure.
But this is only one line of evidence against the determinism. I also explained how the hard determinist view in evolution is being undermined with new dicoveries of animal agency especially for humans. How a creatures choice and behaviour directs nature and not some matmatical equation of survival. If the determinism is being undermined within such a fundemental area that is most often the basis for determinism then this also undermines the self assured determinist claims.
I also gave evidence for phenomenal conscious beliefs which like experiences of red for example are real phenomena about reality and an influence of reality itself. If this is the case then here we have real indeterminant phenomena that could contribute to having free will. This makes sense as it seems free will itself is an experience rather than an object we can measure.
I linked a paper showing how observations of human behaviour better reflect the lived reality of free will than mechanistic measures such as neurons, nerves and genetics. In other words despite determinist claiming that the evidence for free willis in brain activity which cannot explain lived reality. Its the actual behavioural sciences that are fitting the evidence through the lived reality of free will and is not deterministic as its about mind as opposed to physical brain.
I also used your own paper from Kane for which it seems Daniel Dennet has a similar idea supporting how free will can work. For which you have not refuted.
Whatever is influencing the way in which you will choose, is what's really doing the choosing for you always.
But you claim to be programmed...Love is an emotion. I don't think we can 'programme' emotions.
Well I'm not a software guy, but I suppose you could it tell whatever you want.But let's say it was possible. Do you tell the robot to choose who to love?
I suppose you could virtually randomize it if that's what you determine to do.In which case, on what basis does it determine that person? If it makes a choice then there must be reasons that cause it. There must be our old friends antecedent conditions. It's either random or it's been determined.
My emotions are determined. I can't imagine one could do that with AI.But you claim to be programmed...
So it's obviously not making any decisions. Let alone free will decisions.Well I'm not a software guy, but I suppose you could it tell whatever you want.
If it's random then there's no free will.I suppose you could virtually randomize it if that's what you determine to do.
The preexisting preferences/conditions are the causes or influences.While that statement seems reasonable, it's inaccurate. Things don't influence our choices beyond the fact that they're one of the available options.
If I ask you to choose between 'A' and 'B' you'll do so based entirely... ENTIRELY... upon your preexisting preferences. And it's those preexisting preferences that'll determine which one you'll choose. Prefer 'A'... choose 'A'. Prefer 'B'... choose 'B'. It's not 'A' or 'B' that are influencing your choice, they're just the available options... that's it... nothing more. The real causal agent in this process are your preexisting preferences. They're the things deciding which one you'll choose.
Now you can ask where your preexisting preferences came from, but one thing's for sure, they didn't come from 'A' or 'B'... because they preexisted 'A' and 'B'.
So of those three things 'A', 'B', and your 'Preexisting preferences', the obvious cause of your choice is your preexisting preferences.
How on earth is it wasting time to disagree with your metaphysical assumptions about the world. What do you want me to do agree lol. I am disagreeing and you say its a waste of time. Yet that is the very basis for debate lol.I'll not be responding to you further. I can't wate this much time.
The preexisting preferences/conditions are the causes or influences.
We are all exclusively unique from one another, because the factors involved way, way outweigh, and far, far exceed just the number of people on the planet, which allows each and every single one of us to have a very, very unique makeup, and perspective/ways in which we will decide to choose, and/or programming, and in that way, and more, we are all very, very unique, and no one will ever choose in exactly the same way, or have all the same exact causes or factors involved in choosing, etc.I just wanted to clarify that when we're talking about causes and influences, it's not the thing sitting in front of me that's influencing me to choose it, it's all the things in my past that instilled in me a preference for that thing... that's the actual cause. Without all those things in my past I wouldn't give a hoot about that thing sitting in front of me now.
That being the case it really is my fears and desires that drive my choices. It doesn't matter how I came to have those fears and desires... the fact is that I have them. They are solely and entirely mine. All the events, throughout all of history have coalesced into one specific being, with one unique perspective... that's different from absolutely everybody else's. And because of those events I have the ability to decide what I WILL do, and what I WILL NOT do. And I don't care how I came to have that ability, or what influenced that ability... at the end of the day the unquestionable fact is, that I have it.
I have the wants, desires, fears, and more importantly I have the ability... to choose. People may denigrate the manner in which I came to have it, but that doesn't diminish the fact that among all of creation... what I value matters.
Hey, if you can't make a logical argument, make an emotional one.
I just wanted to clarify that when we're talking about causes and influences, it's not the thing sitting in front of me that's influencing me to choose it, it's all the things in my past that instilled in me a preference for that thing... that's the actual cause. Without all those things in my past I wouldn't give a hoot about that thing sitting in front of me now.
That being the case it really is my fears and desires that drive my choices. It doesn't matter how I came to have those fears and desires... the fact is that I have them. They are solely and entirely mine. All the events, throughout all of history have coalesced into one specific being, with one unique perspective... that's different from absolutely everybody else's. And because of those events I have the ability to decide what I WILL do, and what I WILL NOT do. And I don't care how I came to have that ability, or what influenced that ability... at the end of the day the unquestionable fact is, that I have it.
I have the wants, desires, fears, and more importantly I have the ability... to choose. People may denigrate the manner in which I came to have it, but that doesn't diminish the fact that among all of creation... what I value matters.
Hey, if you can't make a logical argument, make an emotional one.
The number of factors we are talking about that are probably involved here would probably make our best supercomputers or AI's have a total and complete meltdown trying to conceive of or comprehend, etc, let alone calculate so as to be able to predict always, etc.We are all exclusively unique from one another, because the factors involved way, way outweigh, and far, far exceed just the number of people on the planet, which allows each and every single one of us to have a very, very unique makeup, and perspective/ways in which we will decide to choose, and/or programming, and in that way, and more, we are all very, very unique, and no one will ever choose in exactly the same way, or have all the same exact causes or factors involved in choosing, etc.
Because from our perspective, we do choose, even if it's already been decided, etc, and even if it only comes from the perspective of all we can't comprehend/don't know right now, etc. There is just simply not another way to go about it for us right now, etc.
Take Care/God Bless.
Most people don't simply say 'you're wrong because...well, it's obvious'.How on earth is it wasting time to disagree with your metaphysical assumptions about the world. What do you want me to do agree lol. I am disagreeing and you say its a waste of time. Yet that is the very basis for debate lol.
By this logic you should be quitting all your debates as every person who disagrees with you is doing exactly the same.
How have I said that. Besides isn't that exactly what material determinists are doing. That its that obvious we don't have free will that if you believe it your deluded.Most people don't simply say 'you're wrong because...well, it's obvious'.
The problem is what we are seeing in reality which is what we directly experience is causing us to believe there is free will depite all that. Searle covered this in the video I linked in the previous post. Have a look and see what you think.There is no choice, or action/inaction/decision, or operation in the human body or brain, that doesn't have a cause, etc. And if any of those has, or had, or always does have, a prior cause, etc, then those prior causes are also an antecedent condition, or they become such, which are all deterministic, etc. As all of those prior causes, also all have/had a prior cause, etc. And this going back as far as you want to follow it, or trace it, etc, as they all had a prior cause, etc.
Refute this, and you can maybe refute determinism maybe, etc.
But if not, or until then, you're just full of hot air, and your words mean nothing, or have no meaning, etc.
So and/or again, and as @Bradskii has been saying pretty much all along, show us something or anything that doesn't have a prior cause?
Either put up, or be silent, etc.
Because until then, you haven't refuted or disproven anything yet, etc, and determinism is still the most likely possibility/explanation for everything we are right now seeing, etc.
And I think it's sad that you refuse to see that, etc. Especially when I contemplate the reasons/causes for that, etc. Which makes it even more sad, etc.
God Bless.
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