Found this article, what do you think?

LightHorseman · Feb 26, 2009

Why base your entire argument on how much like heterosexuals homosexuals are?

Um, I don't think thats what I base my argument on. I base my argument on the fact that everyone should be treated equally, and, assuming adult informed consent, people should be allowed to pretty much do what they like.

Having said that, homosexuals are like heterosexuals in all the important regards. Everything that is considered "special" about a heterosexual married couple can be "special" about a homosexual couple too. so if it makes heterosexuals special, I can't see why it doesn't make homosexuals special for exactly the same reasons.

Personally, I don't like grouping people by these picky little subgroups that define a person because of one beahavioural or physical trait. I try my best to see people as people, and focus on what unites us rather than on what divides us. I don't always succeed, byut I believe thats what Christ commands me to do.

CCGirl · Feb 26, 2009

Inviolable said:
I think it's odd that they want to be seen "exactly" like everyone else.

Hence the reference.
"Are you going to ask a African American to act like a white guy because it'll help with equality?
No?
Then why base your entire argument on how much like heterosexuals homosexuals are?"

You know so,
Why base your entire argument on how much like heterosexuals homosexuals are?

Because we are all human beings? Just curious, did you find the way black people tried for equality odd as well? I am just trying to understand what you find odd. Most advances in civil rights were very vocal, took years to get (like women and the vote, suffregettes), were organized, etc., and I think Gay people are using the same tools.

We have equal marriage in Canada and it really is okay.

Inviolable · Feb 26, 2009

CCGirl said:
Because we are all human beings? Just curious, did you find the way black people tried for equality odd as well? I am just trying to understand what you find odd. Most advances in civil rights were very vocal, took years to get (like women and the vote, suffregettes), were organized, etc., and I think Gay people are using the same tools.

We have equal marriage in Canada and it really is okay.

Why is this post the only post of mine you quoted?

Inviolable · Feb 26, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Um, I don't think thats what I base my argument on. I base my argument on the fact that everyone should be treated equally, and, assuming adult informed consent, people should be allowed to pretty much do what they like.

Having said that, homosexuals are like heterosexuals in all the important regards. Everything that is considered "special" about a heterosexual married couple can be "special" about a homosexual couple too. so if it makes heterosexuals special, I can't see why it doesn't make homosexuals special for exactly the same reasons.

Personally, I don't like grouping people by these picky little subgroups that define a person because of one beahavioural or physical trait. I try my best to see people as people, and focus on what unites us rather than on what divides us. I don't always succeed, byut I believe thats what Christ commands me to do.

Yes and like a poster said and you yourself, left handedness is equated to homosexuality. So is being homosexual any different then being left handed?
And in response,
is being left handed all a homosexual is reduced to?

<staff edit>

CCGirl · Feb 26, 2009

Inviolable said:
Why is this post the only post of mine you quoted?

Simplicity. I was not about to quote all of your posts, but my questions were asked in all seriousness.

LightHorseman · Feb 26, 2009

Inviolable said:
Yes and like a poster said and you yourself, left handedness is equated to homosexuality. So is being homosexual any different then being left handed?
And in response,
is being left handed all a homosexual is reduced to?

<staff edit>.

<staff edit>

I'm 31. and I never equated left handedness with homosexuality, I merely offer the treatment of left handers as a comparison.

But in answer to "" is being left handed all a homosexual is reduced to?", if I understand the question correctly, my answer is, "It is wrong to treat a homosexual differently than one would treat a heterosexual for PRECISELY the same reasons that it is wrong to treat a left hander differently to a right hander. Yes, there are some superficial differences about the way they do things, but their inherent humanity wants, rights, desires and needs are no different".

<staff edit>

SughaNSpice · Feb 26, 2009

Inviolable said:
It's been one so far, right up to this point as a matter of fact and now that it seems as if you have me cornered, well, those people who once didn't want to respond, now are.

No, as a matter of fact I don't. I'd like homosexuals to be honest,

Exactly how have gays and lesbians been dishonest?

I dont see literally hundreds of gay/lesbian websites lying and claiming Christians are child molesters but its easy to find literally hundreds of Christian websites lying and claiming gays are child molesters.
I dont see literally hundreds of gay/lesbian websites lying and claiming Christians are diseased but its easy to find literally hundreds of Christian websites lying and claiming gays are diseased.
Its Christian websites and radio personalities and personalities lying about gays and lesbians not the other way around

I'd like top see them stop with the blame game and for once try and figure out the problems people are having with them.

The problem seems to be that they want equal rights. Why some people have a problem with equality is beyond me though one hears a lot of vague talk about how equal rights for gays and lesbians takes away Christians rights but strangely when you ask the people mumbling about that just what rights are in danger you never actually get an answer

Other then saying, anyone who doesn't agree with them is prejudice or homophobic.

Is there any reason beyond homophobia and prejudice for denying a minority equal rights?

In all honesty, that's the only thing I have for being against giving homosexuals their rights. Their actions in this regard make their motives look questionable.

I've answered this question and several just like it, I've replied to and acknowledged several comments just like the one you've asked above.
In this thread
So before I answer, let me ask you a question.
Why haven't you looked for the post I made that addresses the above statement?
Why do I have to keep repeating everything I say?

Why do I have to repeat the same question to you over and over?
Still waiting for an answer to my question what rights of yours are threatened by equality?

Nope, I want to deny them basic rights because that's the issue they constantly dodge. Which puts their motives in question.

In other words prejudice and homophobia

Inviolable · Feb 26, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Care to address the specifics of what I said and point out individually where you disagree, rather than a blanket "nyer nyer thats juvenile"?

I'm 31. and I never equated left handedness with homosexuality, I merely offer the treatment of left handers as a comparison.

But in answer to "" is being left handed all a homosexual is reduced to?", if I understand the question correctly, my answer is, "It is wrong to treat a homosexual differently than one would treat a heterosexual for PRECISELY the same reasons that it is wrong to treat a left hander differently to a right hander. Yes, there are some superficial differences about the way they do things, but their inherent humanity wants, rights, desires and needs are no different".

Yup,
I agree.
It is wrong to treat someone unfairly. However I find that when someone is different, they generally want those differences respected.
That's the entire point I've made and if I say so myself "made a good case of it."
However, even after I've delivered that point in it's utmost clarity, you've done your best to reduce it back to prejudice. When a good argument is given and it has absolutely nothing to do with prejudice what happens?
It's still reduced to prejudice "some how".
They honestly don't deserve their rights with a presence of mind that is of that nature. It's devolgent of as much hate and anger as anyone who openly admits to prejudice.
That statement covers all your questions in this post. It also very nicely covers post #147

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=50820727&postcount=147
Since we're asking personal questions, what's the highest level of education you have achieved?

I got my bachelors and am currently going back for a masters.

LightHorseman · Feb 27, 2009

I got my bachelors and am currently going back for a masters.

In what discipline, and from which institution?

Inviolable · Feb 27, 2009

LightHorseman said:
In what discipline, and from which institution?

Why?
Are you a psychology professor or something?
You know the old saying, those that cant do, teach.

Andreusz · Feb 27, 2009

Okay, Inviolable, how about this:

we are different from you in that
-- we are sexually attracted to members of our own sex;
-- we fall in love with members of our own sex;
-- we have sexual relations with members of our own sex;
-- we form long-term relationships with members of our own sex ( I am not talking about friendship here, but loving relationships involving the kind of intensity of feeling that heterosexuals experience towards their opposite-sex partners).

We are the same as you in that
-- we feel sexual attraction, fall in love, have sexual relations, form long-term relationships ...
-- we work, pay taxes, are concerned about our communities, vote, and (sometimes) raise children...
and in every other way.

The rights we want are:
not to be dismissed from our jobs, simply because we are different;
not be physically assaulted because we are different;
not to be refused service because we are different;
to have our relationships recognised as equivalent to yours;
(ideally) not to be looked down upon because we are different (but I realize that this is not going to be easily achieved, so in the mean time, I'll settle for the first four, thanks).

ChaliceThunder · Feb 27, 2009

AdamClarke said:
Please note I'm not saying I agree with the article, but I thought it important to seek out what Christian African Americans have to say about the issue.

Do not characterize them as Christian African Americans.

They are SOME African Americans who say they are Christian.

I know of many African American Christian congregations who don't identify with this article at all.

morningstar2651 · Feb 27, 2009

AdamClarke said:
I found this article while researching the thesis that same-sex marriage is a civil rights issue in the same vein as the Civil Righes movement of the 60's. I would be interested in your opinions and thoughts on this article from the largest predominantly African American denomination in the U.S.

http://www.cogic.com/highjacking-the-civil-rights-movement.html

I think you should stop using Google for research and switch to something a bit more academic.

http://proquest.umi.com/login

LightHorseman · Feb 27, 2009

Inviolable said:
Why?
Are you a psychology professor or something?
You know the old saying, those that cant do, teach.

Because I'm curious. I'm happy to tell you my degree is a Bachelor of Nursing from the University of New England.

Your turn...

Inviolable · Feb 27, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Because I'm curious. I'm happy to tell you my degree is a Bachelor of Nursing from the University of New England.

Your turn...

Can you just tell me what the point is please?
I have a feeling people just want this thread to die.

AdamClarke · Feb 28, 2009

morningstar2651 said:
I think you should stop using Google for research and switch to something a bit more academic.

http://proquest.umi.com/login

I didn't use Google this article was found on an Academic Database. That it can also be found via Google through the COGIC website should not be surprising since they own the rights to it.

AdamClarke · Feb 28, 2009

ChaliceThunder said:
Do not characterize them as Christian African Americans.

They are SOME African Americans who say they are Christian.

I know of many African American Christian congregations who don't identify with this article at all.

Agreed but they were chosen to begin my study because they are indeed the largest predominantly African American Church in the country. I have found that those that disagree are usually very small bodies. I think it is safe to say that the majority of Christian African Americans do indeed oppose the analogy drawn between homosexual rights activists and themselves.

SughaNSpice · Feb 28, 2009

AdamClarke said:
Please note I'm not saying I agree with the article, but I thought it important to seek out what Christian African Americans have to say about the issue.

I think I made my thoughts on it very clear thank you very much

SughaNSpice · Feb 28, 2009

NAACP calls for Prop 8 to be overturned February 24, 2009. The Associated Press
Officials with the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People on Monday, Feb. 23 announced that the organization supports measures before the California Legislature challenging Proposition 8, the anti-gay-marriage amendment approved by voters last November.

In a letter to legislative leaders, NAACP national board chair Julian Bond and President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous urged lawmakers to pass House Resolution 5 and Senate Resolution 7 and put the legislature on record as calling for the courts to invalidate Prop 8 as an improper and dangerous alteration of the California Constitution.
The NAACPs mission is to help create a society where all Americans have equal protection and opportunity under the law. Our Mission Statement calls for the equality of rights of all persons. Prop. 8 strips same-sex couples of a fundamental freedom, as defined by the California State Supreme Court. In so doing, it poses a serious threat to all Americans. Prop. 8 is a discriminatory, unprecedented change to the California Constitution that, if allowed to stand, would undermine the very purpose of a constitution and courts - assuring equal protection and opportunity for all and safeguarding minorities from the tyranny of the majority. President Benjamin Todd Jealous.
The NAACP has long opposed any proposal that would alter the federal or state constitutions for the purpose of excluding any groups or individuals from guarantees of equal protection. We urge the legislature to declare that Proposition 8 did not follow the proper protective process and should be overturned as an invalid alteration that vitiated crucial constitutional safeguards and fundamental American values, threatening civil rights and all vulnerable minorities. Chairman Julian Bond.

SughaNSpice · Feb 28, 2009

AdamClarke said:
Agreed but they were chosen to begin my study because they are indeed the largest predominantly African American Church in the country. I have found that those that disagree are usually very small bodies. I think it is safe to say that the majority of Christian African Americans do indeed oppose the analogy drawn between homosexual rights activists and themselves.

If people want to get married, I dont care if theyre the same sex. Not all civil rights are racial. - Charles Cobb - leader of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in Mississippi from 1962 to 1967. He is also a founding member of the National Association of Black Journalists.

Wait let me guess, hes out of touch.

Found this article, what do you think?

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