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Fossil Fish Sheds Light on Transition

dad

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Pure_in_Heart said:
We are talking about science, not politics. Offer evidences, or shut up.
I must be missing something. I can't see how very fast adapting in the past is a problem? Either God made this thing the way it was, or it adapted to the changing new planet as it was supposed to.
How could this in any way negate the creation of man, and sea creatures, and animals, etc, and Eden?

The ability to evolve and adapt in creations can't be a bad thing? We know God made sea creatures, and birds, and animals, this doesn't affect that in any way, save by assumptions on some unproven common ancestor nonsense?
 
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Split Rock

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dad said:
The ability to evolve and adapt in creations can't be a bad thing? We know God made sea creatures, and birds, and animals, this doesn't affect that in any way, save by assumptions on some unproven common ancestor nonsense?
Except this fossil is exactly the kind of transitional "some unproven common ancestor nonsense" predicts we would find.
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Split Rock said:
Except this fossil is exactly the kind of transitional "some unproven common ancestor nonsense" predicts we would find.

Yeah, but you know that the creationist version of what they expect from evolution and the evolutionary biologist version are two different things.
 
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dad

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Split Rock said:
Except this fossil is exactly the kind of transitional "some unproven common ancestor nonsense" predicts we would find.
But the nonsense neglects a few imporatant things, rendering it useless.

1) That a full spectrum of life was created originally, without the gaps we now see. Finding some fossils of part of the spectrum gone exinct is no big issue at all. For it to apply to old age evolution, one thing is missing. Not showing that things once filled the gaps, but showing what in heaven's name this has to do with Granny. See, if the thing was created, it matters not if it was bihabitat or cross habitat - or mid habitat.. That doesn't mean there wasn't still an ocean full of sea creatures, and land mammals as well!

2) Assuming that if it did evolve, or adapt from, say a sea creature, that this was not a normal function of God's creation, adapting to the changing planet. (Now, it is not normal, save in the observed slow adapting, and 'evolving' -but that's another issue)


So, as I say, I can't quite get the signifigance here, so what? Creation predicts a fuller spectrum of creatures as well.
 
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Split Rock

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I don't know what it has to do with "Granny" since this is some weird term you invented as part of "Dadology."



I agree with the first part, that evolution from fishes to tetrapods that could inhabit the land may well have been a "normal part of God's creation." This "hyper-evolution" stuff you are eluding to is pure ad-hoc speculation on your part, however. Unless you give us a mechanism, or some physical evidence that evolution worked faster in the past, that is where the idea will have to stand with the rest of us.


dad said:
So, as I say, I can't quite get the signifigance here, so what? Creation predicts a fuller spectrum of creatures as well.
The significance is that this organism had features in common with both lobe-finned fish and tetrapods (amphibians). It also occurs in strata preceeding well-developed amphibians and coming after the first lobe-finned fish. In addition, the other 14 or so known tetrapods from the Devonian Period are similarly not fully adapted to terrestrial life. Where are the frogs, turtles and snakes? Where are the salamanders? They didn't exist yet. This all supports evolutionary theory.
 
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Dr.GH

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Another important point relevant to the evo/creato issue is that the team of paleontologists went to that hostile location to work becasue the rock had been independently dated by radiometric methods, and the dates were when theory predicted that an aquatic to land transition would have occurred.

This totally refutes the creationist canard that "fossils date the rock, nad the rock dates the fossils."
 
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dad

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dad

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We all know that the decay rates old age time theories agree pretty well with theoretical old age evolution. I think this is evidence that the theories were intelligently designed!! Not by the Intelligent Designer Himself however!
 
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gluadys

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GoSeminoles! said:
To take advantage of ecological niches: to help it evade predators since as yet there were no predators on land, or to nab insects or munch on plants just above the surface, or find a place to lay its eggs away from predators.

Actually since lungs appear very early in fish, any advantage they have for terrestrial habitats is moot as far as why they appeared and selected for. Stephen J. Gould held it is likely that lungs appeared first, and the swim bladders found in ray-finned fish are a modification of the lung. I don't know to what extent others agree with him, but it is a reminder that lungs were not developed in order to breath on land, nor to escape marine predators. They have a long pre-terrestrial history.
 
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gluadys

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shinbits said:
Okay. But this is just an assumption being stated as fact.


This is another assumption. Remember, transitional fossils are extremely rare. There is not enough evidence for evolution to even make a good case for it.

It is not an assumption that these two groups of fish exist. It is not an assumption that they existed prior to any vertebrate life on land.

As to why they exist, the most rational explanation is speciation. There is no need to invoke "macro-evolution" because they are both still fish.
 
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gluadys

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shinbits said:
No it isn't. The entire link explains in detail why fossils are rare.

It is quote mining since you don't put in the qualifier.

Fossils are rare in proportion to the number of individual animals, plants, bacteria, etc. that ever lived. Extremely rare.

That doesn't make them scarce.

Despite the fact that the proportion of organisms which fossilized compared to those which did not is probably well under 1%, we still find lots of fossils.
 
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gluadys

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Actually, physics permits a mathematical calculation of whether legs are likely to support the weight of the body. This is a matter of understanding biological engineering, not a subjective comment based on a quick glance.
 
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Split Rock

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Perhaps you mistakenly posted in the wrong thread. This thread is not about abiogenesis or where the first life came from. It is about the transition from water to land that the tetrapods (us) made during the Devonian Period.




Please read the O.P.!


It is the entire issue of this thread!! If time isn't an issue for you and you agree evolving went on, then what is your problem, dad??


Fine. Can you provide us with an example of evidence that would disprove the creation account? Or will you say no matter what we find, that it proves creationism?



dad said:
Either way, such a transitional appearing fossil is not proof of their belief, or evidence that science says a thing about linking this to either creation, or the first lifeform! So, again, --so what?????
Again, please read the O.P. If you think the O.P. is not very interesting (because it doesn't discuss "Granny"), then Don't Post Here!


dad said:
As above.
As Above!



dad said:
So? Either it co existed with these other things, or was an adaptation. Great. So? What does that have to do with Granny Bacteria?
Nothing At All! Read The O.P.!!!


dad said:
The planet there at that time seems condusive to such a creature collection then, perhaps there was a lot of water, and land, and these things really got around well. Maybe some adapting went on. So??
Great. Then you agree with the O.P.!



Why don't we find turtles, salamanders and frogs? They live in the same type of ecosystem, don't they? Also, we find these animals (and not the others) everywhere in the Devonian record, not just in one location.

dad said:
Creationism eats theories like evolution for breakfast.
Sorry dad, but your Dadology eats nothing but your own brain cells..
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Quoted and blued for the lurkers since the intransigents won't care.
 
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Vermithrax

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Pure_in_Heart

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I clicked the link repeatedly, but it couldn't be visited. Why?
 
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