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OP if you get a chance please check out these threads :
Everything that has brought me closer to Christianity in General has brought me closer to Orthodoxy
and
Secular Non Biblical Sources For The Existence Of The Lord Jesus Christ in History
.
Could you link me to the appropriate forum where I can discuss a topic about the existence of the god yahweh? I have questions to ask monotheists about whether this god exists or not. Thank you.
Well for now I just want to focus on the origins of the god that the jews in the bible claimed to have litterally talked to way before Jesus came on the scene.
To all who replied.
Thank you for such a speedy response from all.
I currently am 35yrs of age. It was the conflicting guidelines to salvation that threw me off. What really struck me odd was that in Jesus's words in the gospels, he says that "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast...", and after so many instructions to various folks between the beginning of mathew up until James 2, instructions were given that pertained to works and others faith, but it was James 2:14-26 thatended my faith because in context, that entire passage strongly suggests that one can have faith, but without works to go along with the belief a man who stands before god will not be justified. The passage gives so many examples of how different folks were justified by their works and not just their faith, then blatantly out right states afterwards in verse 24, the context is revealed and I quote " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.". This is in direct conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:, 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
There is no question these instructions in both of these passages are in direct conflict with one another because Ephesians says it's faith only and not works that justifies a man, but james says by works a man is justified, not faith only.
Anyways, I didnt want to get into this with anyone because I have other questions I really want to ask that has nothing to do with bible contradictions. After this 3yr long journey as an atheist, I have done so much research on so many subjects, and of course various theologies and I know now that contradictions in a holy book doesnt mean that the god of that holy book doesn't exist because humans are capable of making errors, and holy books arent exempt from error, but in my studies I have questions that I fel are far more relevant than discussing and debating about errors. I hope veryone can respect that because I earnestly dont want to spend so much time here battling about things that are far from what I need to know. The proper sub-forums that my questions should be posted are restricted from me posting in them, at least thats what they say(insufficient privileges).
Which is why there are two types of christians here, those who believe in Lordship Salvation and those who believe in OSAS. Both cannot be true and only one is correct. Pick your crowd.To all who replied.
Thank you for such a speedy response from all.
I currently am 35yrs of age. It was the conflicting guidelines to salvation that threw me off. What really struck me odd was that in Jesus's words in the gospels, he says that "for by grace are ye saved through faith and not of works, lest any man should boast...", and after so many instructions to various folks between the beginning of mathew up until James 2, instructions were given that pertained to works and others faith, but it was James 2:14-26 thatended my faith because in context, that entire passage strongly suggests that one can have faith, but without works to go along with the belief a man who stands before god will not be justified. The passage gives so many examples of how different folks were justified by their works and not just their faith, then blatantly out right states afterwards in verse 24, the context is revealed and I quote " Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.". This is in direct conflict with Ephesians 2:8,9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:, 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
There is no question these instructions in both of these passages are in direct conflict with one another because Ephesians says it's faith only and not works that justifies a man, but james says by works a man is justified, not faith only.
Anyways, I didnt want to get into this with anyone because I have other questions I really want to ask that has nothing to do with bible contradictions. After this 3yr long journey as an atheist, I have done so much research on so many subjects, and of course various theologies and I know now that contradictions in a holy book doesnt mean that the god of that holy book doesn't exist because humans are capable of making errors, and holy books arent exempt from error, but in my studies I have questions that I fel are far more relevant than discussing and debating about errors. I hope veryone can respect that because I earnestly dont want to spend so much time here battling about things that are far from what I need to know. The proper sub-forums that my questions should be posted are restricted from me posting in them, at least thats what they say(insufficient privileges).
Which is why there are two types of christians here, those who believe in Lordship Salvation and those who believe in OSAS. Both cannot be true and only one is correct. Pick your crowd.
Welcome to the forum.Hello, I am a former Christian of 32yrs, more specifically, I was an Independant Fundamentalist Baptist, and even fell into mormonism for 2 years but for personal reasons I wont get into now I quit going and later realized the LDS faith was not for me and returned as an IFB.
Anyways, 3 years ago I ended up rejecting theism and no longer feel justified in believing in the supernatural. It started out with my rereading of the New Testament after I abandoned the interpretations of the scriptures I was taught by IFB, and thought that I would be guided by the holy spirit when rereading the NT for the first time with an open mind, remembering the verse "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god that giveth to all men liberally, and abraideth not and it shall be given him.", so I prayed and asked god, even praying using the instructions Jesus gave, asking with my own words then saying the lord's prayer afterwards.
The results were, I read from Mathew 1:1 and by the time I read up to James 3 I felt that I had been deceived all my life by a false religion made up by men, and not by a god that is not the author of confusion because I was seeking an answer for what must one need to do to be saved, and reading through every passage concerning salvation up to James 3 both Jesus, Paul, and the disciples all preached conflicting versions for what folks should do to be justified/saved.
Anyways, I dont want to say anything to provoke a debate or argument here, I'm just giving a quick introduction about myself. Now almost 3yrs later I have learned too many facts about reality, both about this earth, human history, and the cosmos that the scriptures I used to believe and hold dear, look no more plausable than other cultural myths that we all know are purely manmade and not inspired by any divine entity.
I wanted to join this forum to have friendly discussions because I have many questions, and hoped I could ask and discuss some subjects so some highly educated Christians could shed some light on some things because this life we all have on earth is short, and at this point I see no reason to believe any religion's god or gods exist, and the eternal hell that is threatened by the christian doctrine is no longer a concern of mine, but I need to be sure about some things because if any one of us dies and suddenly wake up on another side of reality and find that we were wrong, especially if the truth ends up being a religion we don't practice and it's god is a vengeful one, well you know where I'm going.
Also, can someone tell me what I am suppose to do to have sufficient privileges to be able topost threads and post in threads? I have questions that are very important to me, and I really want to talk to folks here asap. Thanks.
Hello, I am a former Christian of 32yrs, more specifically, I was an Independant Fundamentalist Baptist, and even fell into mormonism for 2 years but for personal reasons I wont get into now I quit going and later realized the LDS faith was not for me and returned as an IFB.
Anyways, 3 years ago I ended up rejecting theism and no longer feel justified in believing in the supernatural. It started out with my rereading of the New Testament after I abandoned the interpretations of the scriptures I was taught by IFB, and thought that I would be guided by the holy spirit when rereading the NT for the first time with an open mind, remembering the verse "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of god that giveth to all men liberally, and abraideth not and it shall be given him.", so I prayed and asked god, even praying using the instructions Jesus gave, asking with my own words then saying the lord's prayer afterwards.
The results were, I read from Mathew 1:1 and by the time I read up to James 3 I felt that I had been deceived all my life by a false religion made up by men, and not by a god that is not the author of confusion because I was seeking an answer for what must one need to do to be saved, and reading through every passage concerning salvation up to James 3 both Jesus, Paul, and the disciples all preached conflicting versions for what folks should do to be justified/saved.
Anyways, I dont want to say anything to provoke a debate or argument here, I'm just giving a quick introduction about myself. Now almost 3yrs later I have learned too many facts about reality, both about this earth, human history, and the cosmos that the scriptures I used to believe and hold dear, look no more plausable than other cultural myths that we all know are purely manmade and not inspired by any divine entity.
I wanted to join this forum to have friendly discussions because I have many questions, and hoped I could ask and discuss some subjects so some highly educated Christians could shed some light on some things because this life we all have on earth is short, and at this point I see no reason to believe any religion's god or gods exist, and the eternal hell that is threatened by the christian doctrine is no longer a concern of mine, but I need to be sure about some things because if any one of us dies and suddenly wake up on another side of reality and find that we were wrong, especially if the truth ends up being a religion we don't practice and it's god is a vengeful one, well you know where I'm going.
Also, can someone tell me what I am suppose to do to have sufficient privileges to be able topost threads and post in threads? I have questions that are very important to me, and I really want to talk to folks here asap. Thanks.
Well I have realized that if there is such a thing as a god or gods, the god as portrayed in the biblemost certainly does not exist, no more than gods made up like in greek mythology. It's obvious that whether it was the jews or canaanites who invented this "Yahweh" character, made quite a few of the same mistakes as theseother mythological gods we now brush off as myths. The stories about wars in the heavens, the nature of how the earth and the heavens above were constructed as depicted in genesis we now know is so far from the truth that many apologists will say they were metaphores but have no explainations for what these metaphores are or mean.
Too many shortcomings in these texts, and its these kind of mistakes and claims that conflict with the facts about this earth and whats above why we all classify things like I mentioned "greek mythology" as myths, yet the god that is depicted in the bible that is most famously known as "Yahweh/YHWH", or Jehovah can be interpreted as a real god despite the errors made by the few jews who supposably had the privilege of either talking/communicating with him that inspired the stories that were written.
I dont want to get deep on this subject because s many things I do have to say about this will be a bit too provocative and is going to give me a headache having to respond and rebut, and I dont want to debate with anyone here. My goal is to get the answers I need.
Anyways, can someone please tell me what I need to do to be able to start making threads in other areas in this forum? I'de be more than willing to kinda discuss things pertaining to the subject I want to talk about there. This thread was only meant to introduce myself, I asked not to start debates here and sme f the questions asked of me here are going to go somewhere I dont want to go, and I already probably said to much just in this reply. Thanks,
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