Forgive my ignorance...

Logic_Fault · Sep 20, 2007

Inan3 said:
Whew!! That REALLY insures evolution is true! Good one LF.

Evolution has nothing to do with this thread. She asked for information on how the universe and Earth are dated. I provided that. It's not my fault your theology can't stand up to reality.

Split Rock · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
And though it really isn't true or proven you accept it because you NEED it for evolution to have some possible credence.

Why don't you just continue to ignore all the evidence that has been provided in this thread that agree on such dates... afterall, God didn't give you a brain to think with... did he?

PeterMaclellan · Sep 21, 2007

I never really understood how a Christian can believe that all their gifts are endowed to them by their Creator and then go ahead and purposely reject so great a gift as critical thinking. I forget who it was who said "I do not believe God would give us logic then expect us to forgoe it's use" but it's a good quote.

CACTUSJACKmankin · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
And though it really isn't true or proven you accept it because you NEED it for evolution to have some possible credence.

We certainly know it's older than 6-10,000 years. Human history defeats that idea. Biology only confirms what we find from geology and astronomy...lots of time.

RecentConvert · Sep 21, 2007

PeterMaclellan said:
I never really understood how a Christian can believe that all their gifts are endowed to them by their Creator and then go ahead and purposely reject so great a gift as critical thinking. I forget who it was who said "I do not believe God would give us logic then expect us to forgoe it's use" but it's a good quote.

Is this, to which you are referring?

Galileo said:
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended to forgo its use.

dukeofhazzard · Sep 21, 2007

Split Rock said:
...all the evidence that has been provided in this thread that agree on such dates...

That's cool that there are three different sources that come up with roughly the same dates for the earth/our solar system.

I'm off to read the links you all provided for me I may be back with questions.

Thanks!!

Loudmouth · Sep 21, 2007

RichardT said:
Evolutionist = People who "accept" the Theory of Evolution.

The theory of evolution is a theory within biology that does not involve the dating of the universe or the dating of rocks. Therefore, the opinion of an evolutionist regarding the age of the earth or the age of the universe is meaningless.

Also, there are those who fully accept the ages produced by geology and astronomy but reject the theory of evolution. They are called Old Earth Creationists.

Logic_Fault · Sep 21, 2007

dukeofhazzard said:
That's cool that there are three different sources that come up with roughly the same dates for the earth/our solar system.

That's one of the benefits of using real science as opposed to "creation science"; there tends to be multiple lines of evidence in favor of a scientific claim.

I'm off to read the links you all provided for me I may be back with questions.

I'm sure we'll answer any we can.

Thanks!!

You're welcome.

Loudmouth · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
And though it really isn't true or proven you accept it because you NEED it for evolution to have some possible credence.

We accept the age of the Universe and the age of the Earth because it is what the evidence demands.

I have always found that those asking for "proof" or "truth" already have their mind made up based on things that are neither proof nor truth. Scientists understand that nothing can ever be 100% proven, but theories can be supported by evidence to the point that we would be foolish not to lend the theory credence. ALL theories are tentative and are never "proven" nor considered "truth". Proof is only found in mathematics and alcohol, and truth is only paraded about in religions to cover up the insecurity of it's adherents.

Inan3 · Sep 21, 2007

Loudmouth said:
The theory of evolution is a theory within biology that does not involve the dating of the universe or the dating of rocks. Therefore, the opinion of an evolutionist regarding the age of the earth or the age of the universe is meaningless.

Also, there are those who fully accept the ages produced by geology and astronomy but reject the theory of evolution. They are called Old Earth Creationists.

Yes but without the 4.5 billion year stretch nothing would have evolved the way you think it has so therefore you NEED that to be correct also, if it's not correct ToE would have not backbone so to speak

Inan3 · Sep 21, 2007

Loudmouth said:
We accept the age of the Universe and the age of the Earth because it is what the evidence demands.

I have always found that those asking for "proof" or "truth" already have their mind made up based on things that are neither proof nor truth. Scientists understand that nothing can ever be 100% proven, but theories can be supported by evidence to the point that we would be foolish not to lend the theory credence. ALL theories are tentative and are never "proven" nor considered "truth". Proof is only found in mathematics and alcohol, and truth is only paraded about in religions to cover up the insecurity of it's adherents.

Wrong we don't have our mind all made up you do that there is NO God and therefore you have to "fit" evolution in when you know there are many holes in it. Don't try to turn it around to us. You are the ones saying you have soooooo much evidence but when we show you the holes you cry that we have our minds made up.

TheOutsider · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
Wrong we don't have our mind all made up you do that there is NO God and therefore you have to "fit" evolution in when you know there are many holes in it. Don't try to turn it around to us. You are the ones saying you have soooooo much evidence but when we show you the holes you cry that we have our minds made up.

Holes? What holes?

Inan3 · Sep 21, 2007

PeterMaclellan said:
I never really understood how a Christian can believe that all their gifts are endowed to them by their Creator and then go ahead and purposely reject so great a gift as critical thinking. I forget who it was who said "I do not believe God would give us logic then expect us to forgoe it's use" but it's a good quote.

I do not believe He would either that's why I do not fall for something because someone says that every scientist generally agrees with this theory. I look at it rationally and logically and then I make my opinion but you guys really don't want independent thinking or critical thinking what you want is duplicates of yourselves.

TheOutsider · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
I do not believe He would either that's why I do not fall for something because someone says that every scientist generally agrees with this theory. I look at it rationally and logically and then I make my opinion but you guys really don't want independent thinking or critical thinking what you want is duplicates of yourselves.

As I've told you before, the evidence is there. You can go back and do the experiments for yourself and see if you get different results. Science thrives on independent thought and critical thinking. People who come up with new lines of thinking are highly rewarded. If you could come up with evidence that falsifies the theory of evolution, you would receive a Nobel Prize and your favorite university would name several large buildings after you.

Loudmouth · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
Wrong we don't have our mind all made up you do that there is NO God

My mind is not made up on that matter at all. If I experience God or find evidence that any deity exists then I will accept that deity.

and therefore you have to "fit" evolution in when you know there are many holes in it.

My acceptance of evolution has nothing to do with my view of religion or the supernatural. Also, what holes are you referring to?

Don't try to turn it around to us. You are the ones saying you have soooooo much evidence but when we show you the holes you cry that we have our minds made up.

Again, what holes? Perhaps you could start a new thread so we can discuss these holes?

RecentConvert · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
Wrong we don't have our mind all made up you do that there is NO God and therefore you have to "fit" evolution in when you know there are many holes in it. Don't try to turn it around to us. You are the ones saying you have soooooo much evidence but when we show you the holes you cry that we have our minds made up.

Please be reasonable...

You did admit, yourself, that you already have your mind made up in the thread Evolution: The Good the Bad and the Ugly. We are simply telling you what you told us. Why are you rejecting it, now?

Secondly, your mind being "made up" was not brought up in response to any "holes." Also, what do you mean "Don't try to turn it around on us?" What is "it" in this sentence?

Finally, I don't understand why you claim that evolutionary biologists believe that there's no God. Plenty of them do and the theory of evolution doesn't preclude His existence, so I honestly don't understand your position. When people accuse you of spreading falsehoods, this is an example of what they're referring.

Again, I am begging you to be calm and reasonable. I know God would want you to be so...

Loudmouth · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
I look at it rationally and logically and then I make my opinion

No you don't. You compare it with scripture and if it doesn't agree you throw it out. That is not making up your own mind, and it is anything but rational or logical. Using your same reasoning, you would be forced to accept that the Earth does not move, as it plainly states in scripture, and that the Sun must therefore orbit the Earth.

but you guys really don't want independent thinking or critical thinking what you want is duplicates of yourselves.

Independent thinking and critical thinking would be a great start. So far all we hear from you is "It disagrees with scripture, therefore it has to be false." This is the opposite of independent or critical thinking. This is blind faith in religious dogma.

Loudmouth · Sep 21, 2007

Started a new thread on the holes in the theory of evolution.

What are the Holes in Evolution?

Inan3 · Sep 21, 2007

TheOutsider said:
Holes? What holes?

Not that you will believe any of it but it is as much evidence as you give to me. Only this evidence is against ToE.

Lucy
http://www.omniology.com/LucySkeletons.html

http://foru.ms/t6135689-what-are-the-holes-in-evolution.html

The Yale DNA Hybridization Scandal: Introduction
"The problems became quickly apparent -- namely, that there was a far wider scatter of values than Sibley and Ahlquist had published, and this was just 1/8 of their data, and there was no human-chimp link. For example, Sibley and Ahlquist had published that the human-chimp experiments invariably ranged between delta-T = 1.2 to 2.3. But in our small sample we had experiments where the delta-T for human-chimp was calculable as -0.2 and 2.6, well outside the range they had reported. This also raised the issue of how Britten could possibly have failed to notice it -- unless he himself had never looked at it very carefully. Shortly thereafter, when they published their 1987 paper with a table listing experiment numbers alongside values, it became clear that about 60% of the numbers matched our calculations, and about 40% did not. Our calculation of the values from the data was clearly lacking something, although we did it as they described, and it was perfect over half the time. Obviously there was something significant missing from their Materials and Methods. And more importantly, the numbers we had in no way resolved the trichotomy. We wrote to the authors, but received no reply for several weeks. "
http://digilander.libero.it/avifauna/classificazione/sequence6.htm

German scientist Ernst Haeckel's Fraud
"Despite the fact that Haeckel’s embryo drawings have long since been exposed as fraudulent, the profoundly dishonest pro-evolution movement is, astonishingly, STILL presenting his artwork as "proof" of Darwin’s theory. Ironically, no one has been more vigorous in exposing this travesty than Dr. Gould, the world’s staunchest proponent of Darwin’s great myth. He wrote:

Haeckel’s drawings, despite their noted inaccuracies, entered into the most impenetrable and permanent of all quasi-scientific literatures: standard student textbooks of biology (p. 44)….Once ensconced in textbooks, misinformation becomes cocooned and effectively permanent, because…textbooks copy from previous texts (p. 45).

Prof. Gould then made this absolutely startling admission:

…[W]e do, I think, have the right to be both astonished and ashamed by the century of mindless recycling that has led to the persistence of these drawings in a large number, IF NOT A MAJORITY, of modern textbooks! (p. 45, emphasis added)He then goes on to quote a colleague, Michael Richardson of the St. George’s Hospital Medical School in London, who stated, "I know of at least fifty recent biology texts which use the drawings uncritically" (p. 45).

These facts are both frightening and heartening. They are frightening because they demonstrate the colossal dishonesty of the evolutionary movement, as well as the widespread nature of this dishonesty. However, it is heartening to know that even a militant anti-Creationist such as Dr. Gould would admit in the pages of a respected journal like Natural History that one of the major pieces of evidence for evolution is not only fraudulent, but is shamefully being propagated among the world’s youth to this very day. With hope, this might serve as a wake-up call for people who have been deceived into believing Darwin’s theory as scientific fact beyond the scope of doubt or question."
http://www.creationism.org/caesar/haeckel.htm

Just a few holes.

MOVED THIS POST OVER TO LOUDMOUTH'S THREAD What are the Holes in Evolution?

NO NEED TO ANSWER HERE.

Bombila · Sep 21, 2007

Inan3 said:
Wrong we don't have our mind all made up you do that there is NO God and therefore you have to "fit" evolution in when you know there are many holes in it. Don't try to turn it around to us. You are the ones saying you have soooooo much evidence but when we show you the holes you cry that we have our minds made up.

A good many of us do not have our minds made up - note the many agnostic icons and the frequency with which many atheists will state they do not categorically deny the (unlikely) possibility of some kind of deity. You are the one who claims with certainty to converse with God, and even said you understand God.

I have never seen anyone on this forum successfully point out a 'hole' in evolution. You certainly have not. Show us these 'holes', or admit you do certainly have your mind made up, in which case you should have the courtesy not to make stuff up about other people's understanding of reality.

Forgive my ignorance...

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Ubique

Conflation of Blathers

Regular Member

Scientist

Regular Member

Regular Member

Contributor

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Ubique

Contributor

Veteran Saint

Veteran Saint

Pope Iason Ouabache the Obscure

Veteran Saint

Pope Iason Ouabache the Obscure

Contributor

Regular Member

Contributor

Contributor

Veteran Saint

Veteran

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency