Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

Strong in Him said:

How can God "pile up the waters of the sea" if water finds its own level?
Where in the world is there a pile, or heap, of water?

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That could be either a high tide or a tall wave, both of which would have been well-known phenomenon even then.

RDKirk said:

That could be either a high tide or a tall wave, both of which would have been well-known phenomenon even then.

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Either way, it's still a poetic phrase. The entire sea is not piled up in waves.
And it nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Strong in Him said:

What has water finding its own level got to do with the shape of the earth?

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I've yet to see water, level it's self out on a ball.

"All that we don't know is astonishing. Even more astonishing is what passes for knowing."

- Philip Roth

tharkun73 said:

"All that we don't know is astonishing. Even more astonishing is what passes for knowing."

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Only God knows everything.

Apple Sky said:

I've yet to see water, level it's self out on a ball.

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That's because you only look at tennis balls, footballs, ping pong balls or any other ball that you can see.

The earth is enormous. The only way to see it is from space - which people have done, and shown us the pictures.
But you won't consider photos, eye witness accounts or anything like that. You remain bound by what you can see, by what your senses experience and by what your mind can understand - and that's not criticising you, it's an observation.
You have written posts which have said things like, "the moon doesn't look 200,000 (or however many) miles away" - implication; so it isn't. You have posted pictures of a tennis ball rotating with water flying off it, and said something like "the seas are in tact so the world is not spinning." You have posted a picture of a ball with a house that is upside down and asked "are Australians upside down, or what?"

The earth is enormous, yet it is a tiny dot in the universe - a midget compared with other planets. The universe is one among many (I'm not scientific so don't press me for details.)
All of this, to me, speaks of the power, the majesty and the awesomeness of God. The God who created ALL these things and is far, far bigger than all of them; the God who sees the nations of our world as a speck of dust in the bottom of a bucket or moisture on a set of scales, that God not only sees and knows me, but loves me. And not only me, but everyone else who has ever lived.

THAT is the awesome, magnificent, all-powerful, all-knowing God whom we worship. And you know his greatest concern in this vast universe of his? It is that the people whom he created in his image should know him, believe in and accept his Son, be reconciled to him and have a personal relationship with him - one in which we call him Abba, or daddy.

So yes, it actually is sad to see people writing about a flat earth, that's covered in a dome which aeroplanes, or anything else, cannot penetrate - a dome that's somehow suspended in nothingness because the "universe" is not mentioned in the Bible and therefore doesn't exist.
If we reduce the earth, the skies, the Milky Way etc to something that we can see, observe and are able to manage, there's a great risk we will do the same to God. If we look into the sky, learn how far away the stars, moon and planets are and learn that they are only a small part of God's creation, then we magnify (make bigger) God.

Strong in Him said:

Either way, it's still a poetic phrase. The entire sea is not piled up in waves.

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Certainly, it's a poetic phrase, but it some way it must be a metaphor of a known experience.

Strong in Him said:

And it nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

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Agreed.

Strong in Him said:

That's because you only look at tennis balls, footballs, ping pong balls or any other ball that you can see.

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The irony of believing in a flat earth is that it's curvature is something you can see...just sitting on a beach. That's why the ancient Greeks were able to deduce the spherical nature of the earth and even calculate its circumference to within 90% accuracy...just from careful oceanside observations.

Strong in Him said:

You remain bound by what you can see, by what your senses experience and by what your mind can understand - and that's not criticising you, it's an observation.

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Exactly - And I don't feel the earth move/spin, I see the sun, moon & all the stars move daily across the sky, the stars always giving their same patterns/constellations.

Strong in Him said:

The universe is one among many

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There is only one Uni-verse.
"uni" means one or single. It's a prefix derived from the Latin word "unus," which means "one." For example, "unicorn" has one horn, and "unicycle" has one wheel. In some cases, "uni" can also refer to "university," which is a shortening of the word.

Strong in Him said:

So yes, it actually is sad to see people writing about a flat earth, that's covered in a dome which aeroplanes, or anything else, cannot penetrate - a dome that's somehow suspended in nothingness because the "universe" is not mentioned in the Bible and therefore doesn't exist.

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I saddens me that so many people have been hoodwinked by a movable earth that orbits the sun.

Strong in Him said:

If we look into the sky, learn how far away the stars, moon and planets are and learn that they are only a small part of God's creation,

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A Small part of God's creation ? I wouldn't exactly call them small. We know how great, all knowing God is, he is the all & everything & he created this beautiful still level earth just for us & all praise & worship should go to him.

RDKirk said:

The irony of believing in a flat earth is that it's curvature is something you can see...just sitting on a beach. That's why the ancient Greeks were able to deduce the spherical nature of the earth and even calculate its circumference to within 90% accuracy...just from careful oceanside observations.

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Have you ever watched a ship disappear over the horizon ? If so, take a telescope & watch it magically zoom back in to full view. I maybe wrong but I don't think the ancient Greeks had telescopes then.

Apple Sky said:

Exactly - And I don't feel the earth move/spin,

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And why would you? The issue is, we don't feel movement, per se. If you are on an airplane traveling 500 miles per hour you don't feel as if your are moving at speed; the most you might feel is vertical motion when there is turbulence. And as for spin, the issue is that the earth spins very slowly. Sure, I know that Flat Earthers talk about the rotational speed of the Earth being 1,000 mph at the equator but we don't measure rotational speed that way, instead, the rotation of the Earth is 15 degrees per hour. Basically, the Earth spins at half the rate of the hour hand of a clock -- a rotational speed you just aren't going to feel.

Apple Sky said:

I see the sun, moon & all the stars move daily across the sky, the stars always giving their same patterns/constellations.

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Which, as was pointed out to you, is solid proof of a globe Earth. If you watch the sun in the morning, it rises from below the horizon, and in the evening it drops below the horizon -- both impossible on a Flat Earth. Beyond that, have you ever seen sunlight reflected off the bottom of an airplane, or lighting up the bottom of a cloud in the evening? It happens relatively frequently on Earth but requires the Earth be lower than the airplane or the cloud -- both impossible on a Flat Earth but very consistent with the sun going below the horizon on a ball Earth.

Or, try spending time in the mountains. I've spent time in a valley with mountains on the East and West side. In the morning, it starts getting a bit lighter but you can't see the sun, it is below the mountain. If I go up a bit, such as in a building, I could watch as sunlight moves slowing from West to East across the valley, as the sun climbs the shadow of the mountain shrinks, bringing sun to more of the valley.

In the evening, sunset appears to be the opposite, where you can watch as sunlight appears to disappear from East to West, as the shadow of the Western mountains slowly grows, hiding the sun from the valley. Again, this would not happen on a flat Earth, as the sun would always be well above the mountains and whatever causes "sunset" would just make the area all darken at the same time.

As for the stars, the do slowly move but being billions and trillions of miles away, they move very slowly. For example, we know, at the time of Christ, the celestial "North Star" was Thuban, part of constellation Draco. Over time, that has now shifted to being Polaris.

Apple Sky said:

There is only one Uni-verse.
"uni" means one or single. It's a prefix derived from the Latin word "unus," which means "one." For example, "unicorn" has one horn, and "unicycle" has one wheel. In some cases, "uni" can also refer to "university," which is a shortening of the word.



I saddens me that so many people have been hoodwinked by a movable earth that orbits the sun.



A Small part of God's creation ? I wouldn't exactly call them small. We know how great, all knowing God is, he is the all & everything & he created this beautiful still level earth just for us & all praise & worship should go to him.

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It saddens me that people misinterpret the Bible to blind their eyes to the beautiful world and universe that God created.

Apple Sky said:

Have you ever watched a ship disappear over the horizon ? If so, take a telescope & watch it magically zoom back in to full view. I maybe wrong but I don't think the ancient Greeks had telescopes then.

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Yes, we can't really see to the horizon, our eyes don't have that type of distance vision. Yet, the amazing thing is, if you zoom into that ship you often still can't see the bottom of the ship but only the upper part of it and, even with a strong telephoto lens, you see less and less of the top of the ship, as it travels away from you, until it disappears entirely. At that point, even a stronger telephoto lens or a telescope won't bring the ship back into view.

A couple of questions for you: why is water, as you go done, at higher pressure -- to the point that if you go only about 30 feet done -- you get the bends. Why is it as you go down the water pressure increases to the point it will crush a human body (think of the OceanGate Titan)? Same with air, why as you go up does it decrease in pressure, to the point that jet airliners have to pressurize the aircraft so that we, as passengers, don't die from asphyxiation? If it were simply "water finding its level," then we should have constant pressure from the top to the bottom of any large body of water, and same with our atmosphere.

SimplyMe said:

For example, we know, at the time of Christ, the celestial "North Star" was Thuban, part of constellation Draco. Over time, that has now shifted to being Polaris.

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This is interesting as I was under the impression that the star Polaris never moved or rather, fixed.

Apple Sky said:

Have you ever watched a ship disappear over the horizon ? If so, take a telescope & watch it magically zoom back in to full view.

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This is trivially false, yet you have repeated this claim multiple times. You put yourself up for ridicule every time you say this.

Apple Sky said:

Just like the earth, bound in via Antarctica.

Job 38:10 - When I fixed its boundaries and set in place its bars and doors, and I declared: ‘You may come this far, but no farther; here your proud waves must stop’?

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But what in Job 38:10 shows that Antarctica is meant? Looking at that verse in context, we find that God is talking to Job about the sea generally, not specifically the sea in the Antarctic region:

“8 “Or who shut in the sea with doors, When it burst forth and issued from the womb; 9 When I made the clouds its garment, And thick darkness its swaddling band; 10 When I fixed My limit for it, And set bars and doors; 11 When I said, ‘This far you may come, but no farther, And here your proud waves must stop!’” (Job 38:8-11 NKJV)

Talking about stopping, I hope that if you feel the slightest bad effects health-wise from being back here, you will take another break. It's good to have you back, but don't make yourself ill

Apple Sky said:

I've yet to see water, level it's self out on a ball.

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Of course not, because balls (footballs, tennis balls, cricket balls, etc) are all likely to fall to the earth because of their weight, and so is any water one might try to put on them. The weight of the earth does not make it fall to the earth - that doesn't even make sense - but the water is attracted to the earth because of the weight of that water.

Apple Sky said:

Have you ever watched a ship disappear over the horizon ? If so, take a telescope & watch it magically zoom back in to full view. I maybe wrong but I don't think the ancient Greeks had telescopes then.

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But as many people (including me) have said before, that just doesn't happen. If it did, ships would have communicated by morse code using flashing lights and telescopes. Also, if you could see ships beyond the horizon with a telescope, why not other countries? I could have the most powerful telescope in the world, and it wouldn't enable me to see France.

Apple Sky said:

Exactly

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I'm glad you agree that you are relying only on your senses and not the facts.

Apple Sky said:

And I don't feel the earth move/spin, I see the sun, moon & all the stars move daily across the sky,

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We can't feel the earth spin because it is so large.

You don't SEE them move; you see them in different positions/places in the sky and conclude that they have moved, because you refuse to believe the fact of the rotation of the earth.
You have previously written of a black sun and even, I think, spoken of the sun going under the earth and out the other side - all to explain how the sun sets in one area and arrives in the opposite end of the sky the next morning. You don't SEE that happening yet you seem certain that it is so.

Paul says "we live by faith and not by sight", 2 Corinthians 5:7.

Apple Sky said:

There is only one Uni-verse.

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Oh well, at least you admit now that it exists.

Apple Sky said:

I saddens me that so many people have been hoodwinked by a movable earth that orbits the sun.

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Why?
It has nothing to do with salvation, with believing Genesis 1 or having faith in God. It has nothing to do with the devil and can't keep us away from God, prevent us believing in Jesus and having eternal life.

Apple Sky said:

A Small part of God's creation ? I wouldn't exactly call them small.

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No, YOU wouldn't - you refuse to believe in the vastness of space, planets, the milky way and so on.
A brief search on Google tells me that it is believed there are one hundred thousand million stars in our milky way alone - not to mention all the hundreds of other galaxies. The stars that we can see in the sky above our heads are only a tiny part of that.

Apple Sky said:

We know how great, all knowing God is, he is the all & everything & he created this beautiful still level earth just for us & all praise & worship should go to him.

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Oh, all praise and worship does go to him - on my part.
He is to be praised and worshipped because he is Creator of all things - ALL the stars, planets, galaxies and so on. And in this vast, gi-normous universe he has created humans in his image and loves, cares for and intimately knows each one of us.

Another question; how many people do you think there are, and ever have been, in the entire world?
When God spoke to Abraham he told him that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky, Genesis 15:5. Abraham's first son was Ishmael, who grew up, married and had children. One of Abraham's grandsons was Esau, who married and had a large family. His other grandson, Jacob, married and had at least 12 sons and a daughter - they all had families.
Supposing there are/were/have been a million people who were related to and descended from, Abraham - as Abraham's descendants were to be as numerous as the stars in the sky, how many stars do you think there are?

Apple Sky said:

Have you ever watched a ship disappear over the horizon ?

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Interesting.

Geometry tells us that the distance of the horizon – i.e. the farthest point the eye can see before Earth curves out beneath our view – depends simply on the height of the observer.

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David Lamb said:

Talking about stopping, I hope that if you feel the slightest bad effects health-wise from being back here, you will take another break. It's good to have you back, but don't make yourself ill

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Thank you so much David for your concern but I think this is God's mission for me until my end which I don't think will be long now but I think I have done quite well considering I have survived 9 years after my triple A heart surgery. They initially only gave me five years.

As it states in the book of Revelation;

1. The sun will be darkened & the moon will not give off her light,

2. The sky will scroll back and every eye shall see him.

3. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Could these be pieces of the firmament breaking up)

4. The stars will fall to the earth like a untimely fig tree.

Mathew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Not my words but Jesus's.

Apple Sky said:

Thank you so much David for your concern but I think this is God's mission for me until my end which I don't think will be long now but I think I have done quite well considering I have survived 9 years after my triple A heart surgery. They initially only gave me five years.

As it states in the book of Revelation;

1. The sun will be darkened & the moon will not give off her light,

2. The sky will scroll back and every eye shall see him.

3. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. (Could these be pieces of the firmament breaking up)

4. The stars will fall to the earth like a untimely fig tree.

Mathew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Not my words but Jesus's.

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Praise God that He has given you those 9 years already. May you know His presence and blessing during the remainder of your time on this earth, however long that may be.