Fits in Public

ShannonMcCatholic said:

Not that it's any of your business in any way- but no, I was not physically abused as a child.

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OK. Because usually when somebody equates spanking with beating and is so hung up on hitting children, that's a good indication that they're harboring some unspoken pain from having been abused as a child.

Of course, it's also a sign that they may be an abuser.

I did NOT equate spanking with beating- I wrote that spanking is hitting a child ( look up the definition, depending on the dictionary it will read either hitting, striking, slapping or smacking the buttocks). And I wrote that the point of spanking is to hurt the child so that they will internalise the boundary that a parent doesn't want them to cross--so that they connect physical pain with boundary crossing and no longer cross that boundary in the future.

If I am wrong about the point of using spanking as discipline, please correct me. Or perhaps I should ask--what is the purpose of using spanking to discipline?

Again- there is this impuning of my character...why is that?

WarEagle said:

OK. Because usually when somebody equates spanking with beating and is so hung up on hitting children, that's a good indication that they're harboring some unspoken pain from having been abused as a child.

Of course, it's also a sign that they may be an abuser. I won't embarrass you by asking you that here, but if you want to talk about it, please know that you can PM me at any time and I can help you find someone who can help you with that.

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And usually when someone makes statements like these they back them up with sources.

ShannonMcCatholic said:

I did NOT equate spanking with beating

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OK, because, if you'd like, I'll be happy to go back over your posts and show you where, everytime I mentioned spanking, you insisted on substituting "hitting".

And I wrote that the point of spanking is to hurt the child

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Then you should never, ever spank a child, if that's what you think it's about.

Again- there is this impuning of my character...why is that?

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I never impugned your character, just like I never said that you're "not Christian enough".

Golly, I can hardly wait to see what you're going to claim I said next.

I absolutely substituted hitting, and will in every single thread that ever involves spanking- let's call a thing what it is..just like I call an unborn baby an unborn baby and not an embryo or a foetus.

Tell me this--in your opinion what is the point of spanking? How is it effective discipline? What is the mechanism by which boundaries are internalised through spanking? If the point isn't for it to hurt- then why strike your child at all? Why not do something else that physically reinforces the boundary--like have the child do a silly dance?

Just a reminder- my main argument with what you wrote intitially was that there were merely two ways to deal with a tantrum. There are vastly more ways to deal with a tantrum than the two you wrote.

As a completely unrelated aside in reference to your sig--how is someone not a "real" Chirstian if they forgot to bring their Bible to church? How does having a Bible for chrurch make a person anything more than someone with a good memroy or good organisational skills?

ShannonMcCatholic said:

I absolutely substituted hitting

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Right. You chose to take what I said and substitute a completely different word with a dramatically different meaning in order to make it appear that I said something different.

That's dishonest.

and will in every single thread that ever involves spanking

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You'll continue to twist my words?

Tell me this--in your opinion what is the point of spanking?

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To discipline the child.

How is it effective discipline? What is the mechanism by which boundaries are internalised through spanking?

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By communicating to the child that bad behavior brings bad consequences.

If the point isn't for it to hurt- then why strike your child at all?

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To discipline them.

Why not do something else that physically reinforces the boundary--like have the child do a silly dance?

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Because, if the purpose of the tantrum was to draw attention to themselves, having them do something that draws attention to themselves defeats the purpose of disciplining them for throwing a fit to draw attention to themselves.

As a completely unrelated aside in reference to your sig--how is someone not a "real" Chirstian if they forgot to bring their Bible to church

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Why would a Christian not bring their Bible to church with them?

That's like asking "How is a student not a real student if he doesn't feel like taking his books to class".

How does having a Bible for chrurch make a person anything more than someone with a good memroy or good organisational skills?

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If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand.

I'm a Christain and I don't bring a Bible to Church..no one in my church does...does that mean I'm not a real Christian? What if somebody had a hectic morning or a phone call from a sick parent and didn't bring their Bible? Are they not a real Christian?

You are talking in circles-- how is spanking effective discipline? What is the bad consequence that results? It's pain- right? A sore bottom? Why are you afraid of just saying what it is-- A child throws a tantrum and you are saying that this bad behaviour (in certain circumstances) ought to neet with the bad consequence of being hit, struck, slapped, smacked on the buttocks.

I didn't twist anything- the defenition of spaking is hitting with an open handon the butt, to slap or to strike with an open hand or smack on the buttocks- look it up. I am not making up word associations willy nilly. You are somehow okay with the word spanking--but not any of the words which are used to define spanking. And you obviously do not want to think through the how's or why of spanking....

Why would you assume a tantrum is to draw attention to themselves- and not that a child is overtired, hungry, being required to make too abrupt of a transition, overwhelmed by their wants, frightened in a new environment, feeling powerless in a situation? Again- that gets into the area of empathy--of the understanding of the "why" behind things--which from this conversation I am guessing is not a regular aspect of your parenting....

ShannonMcCatholic said:

I'm a Christain and I don't bring a Bible to Church..no one in my church does...does that mean I'm not a real Christian? What if somebody had a hectic morning or a phone call from a sick parent and didn't bring their Bible? Are they not a real Christian?

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I'm quoting somebody else. If you don't like it, take it up with him.

You are talking in circles-- how is spanking effective discipline?

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Answered this one already.

[/quote]What is the bad consequence that results?[/quote]

A spanking. This isn't really that hard to keep up with, is it?

It's pain- right? A sore bottom?

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It shouldn't be. Not if you do it right.

Why are you afraid of just saying what it is-- A child throws a tantrum and you are saying that this bad behaviour (in certain circumstances) ought to neet with the bad consequence of being hit, struck, slapped, smacked on the buttocks.

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Again, we're back to this fixation you have with beating children.

You are somehow okay with the word spanking--but not any of the words which are used to define spanking.

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No, I'm not OK with your implication that we and all of the other millions of parents who spank our children are abusing them.

And you obviously do not want to think through the how's or why of spanking....

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No, actually, we've given it a great deal of thought. We've read dozens of books on the subject and have consulted with older people who've raised children, and, again, my own mother, who is a psychologist specializing in this area.

Why would you assume a tantrum is to draw attention to themselves

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Because we know our children and when Melody started screaming becauase she didn't get her way, that was her way of telling us that she wanted attention.

and not that a child is overtired, hungry, being required to make too abrupt of a transition, overwhelmed by their wants, frightened in a new environment, feeling powerless in a situation?

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Any competent parent knows that there's a big difference between a child who's pitching a fit and a child who's cranky because they're tired.

Again- that gets into the area of empathy--of the understanding of the "why" behind things--which from this conversation I am guessing is not a regular aspect of your parenting....

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I understand exactly why they're doing it, but that I understand it doesn't make it any less wrong and it doesn't absolve me, as a parent, of my responsibility to correct it.

Hesitant to poke my nose in here , and NOT wanting to get into whether spanking (which we call smacking here, yet another word) is right or wrong, but I'd just like to say that it is not incorrect to say that spanking equals hitting.

Hit: 1. to come against, usually with force (and may I be pedantic and point out that force = mass x acceleration, so if your hand is moving it's exerting a force )

2. to give a blow to; strike; knock

So in the same way:

slap = hit
punch = hit

and also....

a cover drive (cricket stroke) = hit
a golf swing = hit (assuming they don't miss )
whatever you call it in baseball where the batter uses a bat to move the ball across the field = hit
drumming = hitting
beating butter = hitting

It's just a word that can mean all sorts of things, some completely harmless and some not. So we come up with 'specialised' words to use in different circumstances to convey the nuance of 'hitting' we want.

Note: I'm no linguist, just putting my 0.02 in here.

E-beth, I can relate completely! Fits are difficult to get through when dealing with it in the privacy of one's home so to deal with it with the critical eyes of strangers or acquaintances is many times more difficult. I have learned to move past the social squishiness of the public fit in these ways:

- force myself to tune out all the people standing near or around me. The way I do it varies from situation to situation, but usually I remind myself that my son needs me to stay calm so as to be the anchor in his raging storm. The adults don't need me, they are merely being inconvenienced by my situation.

- Pray! Inwardly praying, outwardly calm. I recite the Jesus prayer "Lord Jesus Son of God have Mercy on me a sinner" over and over until I feel a sense of peace and can focus appropriately on my child's fit.

- Quickly remove my child from the situation when I see that the fit is turning into rage or when I can see it is escalating and he is going to need my assistance in resettling. That may mean picking him up, bringing him to the bathroom, another room, my car (any private place I can think of on the spot), help him ground himself once again and then once he is calm, bringing him back to the room to try a "do-over" at that point.

Above all I stay focused that my duty, my obligation is to my child. God entrusted him into my care. Adults are grown ups who are mature enough to handle their own emotional state and if they are too busy being judgmental and/or critical of me, I think to myself that that is there problem to deal with not my problem.


WarEagle, it seems you misunderstood the OP. She asked for sympathy not to spout your parenting beliefs. You should create your own thread to discuss your extremely Off Topic posts in this thread. I dislike how you are derailing this thread. Please stop using E-beth's post to preach about your parenting methods.

E-Beth- I am sorry for derailing your thread. I hope this week's visit goes better

MsDahl said:

WarEagle, it seems you misunderstood the OP. She asked for sympathy not to spout your parenting beliefs. You should create your own thread to discuss your extremely Off Topic posts in this thread. I dislike how you are derailing this thread. Please stop using E-beth's post to preach about your parenting methods.

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Oh, sorry. I guess I must have gotten the impression that we were allowed to give advice by the fact that everybody else in the thread was giving advice.

WarEagle said:

Oh, sorry. I guess I must have gotten the impression that we were allowed to give advice by the fact that everybody else in the thread was giving advice.

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and if everybody else jumped off a bridge...

Mostly everyone was giving their sympathies. Your post did seem to imply that there were only two ways to deal with this kind of situation. Shannon was chiming in, adding that there are other options then the two that you described. Not everybody believes that spanking or ignoring your child's emotions are the end all and be all of discipline.


E-beth,

I, too, can relate to the fits in public...your definitely not alone.

Shannon - I can't figure out how to give reps with the new layout etc. but I would have repped every one of your posts in this thread if I could. In the absence of that, I'll sit in front of my PC and give you some applause.

lin1235 said:

Shannon - I can't figure out how to give reps with the new layout etc. but I would have repped every one of your posts in this thread if I could. In the absence of that, I'll sit in front of my PC and give you some applause.

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There is a lightbulb up in the top right corner of each post.

Thanks! Off to hand out some reps!