First Cause Argument

cvanwey said:

Sounds like you are arguing that some source "consciousness" has always existed, which A) was always fully aware of all, and also exempt from materialism? Verses the alternative, B) where "consciousness" maybe has only developed later on, and has since become more progressively aware through natural/material processes?

Sounds like we are delving into the topic of 'substance dualism" (i.e.)?

A) Raw consciousness (outside of materialism) vs. B) Material stuff (that's all there is)

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cvanwey said:

So what exactly are you saying?

Sounds like you are arguing that consciousness could not have arose from materialism?... That consciousness is independent from materialism... That consciousness always was, and that maybe, some "greater consciousness" is/was necessary to 'create/generate/manufacture' new consciousness?

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cvanwey said:

Am I able to rule what out? That consciousness can be independent of the material brain?

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Ophiolite said:

Nothing lies beyond our universe. Our universe does not reside in anything. (Which is not the same as saying it lies in nothing.)

The pop-science link you provided suffered the problem with many pop-science links. It simplified and misrepresented to the point of being worthless.

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Ophiolite said:

Consensus view of thousands of cosmologists, astrophysicists, astronomers, mathematicians etc. who have made such work their life study.

(If you were referring to my view of pop-science then the answer is, decades of contrasting my knowledge, acquired from textbooks, research papers and undergraduate studies with the simplified presentations in pop-science works.)

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cvanwey said:

As I have not studied to the level of you, apparently, I will not contend your assertion(s) here about our known 'universe'

But what I was kind of eluding to prior, is that our 'universe' comprises of a space/time continuum, right? (rhetorical)

God is said to exist outside of space and time, right? This means that whatever realm God dwells, is outside temporal predicates and/or this 'space', right? (rhetorical)

So I again ask you, or theists whom wish to chime in, before the 'Big Bang' and our 'universe', was there complete 'nothingness'? I would assume the theist would argue that God is timeless, spaceless, and always existed. Hence, does not adhere to the 'laws' of our known 'universe'. There could not be complete 'nothingness', as this would also include the assertion of a God.

Moving forward, if God is exempt from this acknowledged space/time arena we humans know, God would still apparently reside in 'something', right? Whether it be a timeless/spaceless realm, a transcendent realm, or other...

When did God decide to produce this realm/arena? And what exactly did God dwell within before-hand?

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cvanwey said:

Aquinas argued that this first cause must have no beginning - that is, nothing caused it to exist because the first cause is eternal.

If the above is true, and God is this first cause, then what exactly did God dwell within before He created it?​

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cvanwey said:

But did He have to create it, before He dwelled in it?

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