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Because answering the questions are not part of the agenda.
Waste of 20 pages, this thread has run its course.
Still presenting tangents - requesting answers rather than answering the Points 1-9.
Are you not interested in learning the major weaknesses in Naturalism, including how it is a walk by faith. Many Naturalist and Evolutionist fail to learn their foundation is by faith. There is no evidence that their was not a Creator but many preferentially ignore this foundational aspect.
Well I didn't and became open to what other matters people put their faith in. But guess what, God was working in me and wanted me to put my faith in Him.
It was not long before He openly showed me by the baptism of His Spirit that He is, He has been, and always will be. He was never far off or non-existent. I was the fool by what unbelief had done to my life.
As far as the remote galaxies are from us, so is the magnitude of His thought towards us each moment. What we did to the very last detail 20 years ago is like it just happen to Him, from the amount of bacteria in a divot playing golf to where every oxygen molecule I was breathing came from, their entire course in history since he Created them.
Naturalist are so blind to God and how near He is each moment. But they want to be our guides to how this physical realm came into existence. And they don't want to even acknowledge their foundational weaknesses in Naturalism. Such is the Day of the Naturalist. They are running their course before all.
Heiss - I'm disappointed in you. I crafted, in my opinion, a well thought out and reasoned response to what you were saying. I agreed on a basic level with the limits of naturalism. I went on to explain the basic flaw in your argument. You chose not to respond, and passed up a chance at a real discussion and a real chance to learn.
Reading the post above, I now know that you are not any kind of naturalist, trained or otherwise. You lied to everyone about that, in an attempt to trick people. You are a creationist, and a zealous one at that.
And you never learned the one thing in this entire thread that was your basic flaw - limitations.
For if naturalism has limitations (and it does), then creationism is even more limited. If naturalism is based only on what we can gather with our five senses, then creationism can't be based on anything, because none of the five senses gather anything regarding a "god".
Your tried to build up creationism by limiting naturalism, but instead you only made a better argument that creationism is even more limited than naturalism. Bravo! You've learned what us naturalists have been trying to tell you all along....
As hard as it may seem, Naturalism is based on faith. You put your trust that it has always been. But you have no proof.
And you have no proof/evidence that it was not created.
What a predicament Naturalists are in.
Limited to their 5 senses, mental inteligence/brain capability, and careful use of the Scientific Method, they presume to be able to detect and learn how this physical existence came about, including if there is a God.
But many have not found how narrow and confining walking in Naturalism is.
Things from the Holy Spirit they know not of. How God is watching their every move they are quite unaware. They do not understand the power of unbelief. They have failed to put their faith in the one who Created all that we see, hear, and know. And great is His purpose on earth among men!
How God is watching their every move they are quite unaware.
It is even broader than that. Science relies on observations. If a deity had a discernable and observable effect on the world around us then it could be a part of science. It is not the fault of scientists that no one can show how deities have any effect on the reality around us.
I always find that an odd argument to make. Yet I come across it from time to time. Imagine it being practiced in the world outside this forum:-Lm said:What Heissonear is complaining about is that we don't put as much weight on faith based claims as we do on evidenced based claims.
Upsetting???...I realize exposing the flaws of Naturalism to many can be upsetting, to say the least.....
Many posts from #191 to #203 have a similarity - undermine this thread and the messenger.
Why? It is exposing the fundamental flaws in Naturalism. Particularly its foundation.
So far it has exposed "the faith" Naturalist have.
A few commentators have presented some quite justifiable questions. But they are towards supernatural, rreasons why they should believe there is a god or creator, and the like. I will reply to those threads as time allows.
As far as statements that I'm not a Naturalist or Evolutionist, and never educated in such, but have lied (see post#202), all I can say is nice try. From Post #1 on I have presented my upbringing and former life. It through my many learning experiences including secular taught geology courses that as presented in Point 8 was learned as a pure Naturalist and trained Evolutionist.
I realize exposing the flaws of Naturalism to many can be upsetting, to say the least.
Some replies deserve respectful replies. They will come.
But "nailed it" is revealing, a victory chant. When Naturalists walk by faith and have no evidence there is not a Creator? Quite immature, no?
Upsetting???
On the contrary... I was really hoping you would provide some good reasons to believe there's something more than "just" the natural world.
I would call myself a "contingent" naturalist. Its my current belief, but only because I've experienced nothing to suggest that there's anything more.Durangodawood,
From personal experience I have found something more than just the natural world. With time will be presenting the how and the what.
One problem though, it depends on what God does.
He is not an analytical instrument, nor a rock sample that we can control and test as we think. I was just a Naturalist when I learned about its limitations. I lacked information about religions and denominations. I had no bible scriptures knowledge. I thought all Christians were very similar. It was by being just a Naturalist that I was confronted with faith. It happened to be God's choice and timing to "work in me" to put faith (a type of try) in Him. For others I cannot say the circumstances or timing. A true weakness on my part toward how God can and does reveal Himself to others.
No, nailed it means he "nailed it", as in he spoke in a way that was objective and made perfect sense.
Responses will come in time? I think that time has passed.
There is order in learning, no? The alphabet before words? Words before sentences?
Such has been what was presented so far about Naturalism. The agreeable definition. Then learning about its weaknesses. Then the walk of faith required and inability of detecting God or the spiritual realm through the 5 senses.
I didn't even know the abc's about Christianity, bible verses, or other religions when I learned about the need of faith to walk as a Naturalist. I had nothing to turn to. I had new things to learn, but I continued to be truthful to myself. I had nothing to prove. Just some interesting questions as a pure Naturalist, an educated one.
Heiss,
Your true agenda is pretty obvious and has been exposed. You tried a "backdoor" and it blew up on you. When you engage in a one sided manner and ignore legitimate questions, it doesn't do much for credibility.
Durangodawood,
From personal experience I have found something more than just the natural world. With time will be presenting the how and the what.
There is order in learning, no? The alphabet before words? Words before sentences?
Such has been what was presented so far about Naturalism. The agreeable definition. Then learning about its weaknesses. Then the walk of faith required and inability of detecting God or the spiritual realm through the 5 senses.
I didn't even know the abc's about Christianity, bible verses, or other religions when I learned about the need of faith to walk as a Naturalist. I had nothing to turn to. I had new things to learn, but I continued to be truthful to myself. I had nothing to prove. Just some interesting questions as a pure Naturalist, an educated one.
How do you reliably glean information about the 'supernatural'?
By what means or methodology do you demonstrate this information?
How do you discern 'supernatural' information from something you may merely be imagining?
How does your audience discern 'supernatural' information from something you made up?
I look forward to your answers.
You say "What God? You have not given us a reason why God should be included as an explanation or a part of the investigation."
And "What spiritual reality? Show us."
It appears you are a Naturalist that has failed to learn about the major limitations of Naturalism.
A weakness of Naturalism is narrow and confined awareness of things like the spiritual realm and the origin of the physical realm.
Always wanting proof but not having any to say they do not exist.
So much for seeking truth and choosing to be a debater.
Such has been what was presented so far about Naturalism. The agreeable definition. Then learning about its weaknesses.
Very curious to about the strengths, if any, of supernaturalism.....So the spiritual realm only exists because you believe it exists? This would seem to be a major weakness for supernaturalism.
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