Finding God in Magic Mushrooms

Matthewj1985 · May 19, 2009

On the way home yesterday I was listening to NPR and came across this story, I am going to cut and paste the part I found interesting but I will link the whole story.

Finding The Mystical In A Mushroom Trip

Actually, Griffiths says that when he took up meditation 15 years ago, he began thinking differently about the nature of reality. He wondered: What if he could study what happens to the brain when people enjoy spiritual experiences? Griffiths recruited 36 people. They were all middle-aged and stable, had an active spiritual practice whether Christian, Jewish or other and were willing to take the trip of their lives. Among them was 56-year-old Karin Sokel.
"They asked me to lay down with headphones and the most powerful music I've ever heard," Sokel recalls. "I was blindfolded, and I began to have my experience."
Sokel was involved in five sessions, and she describes them as the most profound experiences of her life.
"I know that I had a merging with what I call oneness, I am," she says. "There was a time that I was being gently pulled into it, and I saw it as light. It isn't even describable. It's not just light; it's love."
Sokel's words echo those of mystics through the ages, who talked of a physical union with God, a peek into eternity or an out-of-body experience. Griffiths says 70 percent of the subjects had full-blown mystical experiences, which Griffiths calls "remarkable."
Griffiths' research offers clues about the mechanics of spiritual mystery, says neuroscientist Solomon Snyder.
Serotonin And The Mechanism Of Mysticism
"If we assume that the psychedelic, drug-induced state is very much like the mystical state," Snyder says, "then if we find out the molecular mechanism of the action of the drug, then you could say that we have some insight into what's going on in the brains of mystics."
Snyder, who is chairman of the neuroscience department at Johns Hopkins and was not involved in the study, says scientists suspect that a key player in mystical experience is the serotonin system. The neurotransmitter serotonin affects the parts of the brain that relate to emotions and perceptions. Chemically, peyote, LSD and other psychedelics look a lot like serotonin, and they activate the same receptor.
Think of that serotonin receptor as a bouncer at a nightclub. The party's a bit tame, and when the bouncer spots the fun chemical the active ingredient in psilocybin he lets Mr. Fun into the club. Suddenly, the party picks up and the brain chemicals are burning up the floor.
Let the spiritual experience begin.

The God Chemical: Brain Chemistry And Mysticism : NPR

I have never tried any hallucinogens but I have seen some of the most devoted skeptics and atheist walk away from their first "trip" with absolute certainty that there is "something bigger than us" out there. Keep in mind these are not drugged out hippies in this study, these are regular, middle aged Americans and more than a few are Christians.

Another thing I find very interesting is that Psilocybin is a very, very unique compound and is ONLY found in these mushrooms in all of nature. Marijuana is also very, very, very unique in the plant world in that it is THE ONLY plant that shows sex outwardly, it also effects neurotransmitters that for all intents and purposes look to be "made" specifically for canabinoids.

green wolverine · May 19, 2009

It's definiting interesting the role different substances play on our well-being, but no drug can produce the regeneration of the soul by the Holy Spirit that is necessary to enable a person to turn to Christ.

Matthewj1985 · May 19, 2009

green wolverine said:
It's definiting interesting the role different substances play on our well-being, but no drug can produce the regeneration of the soul by the Holy Spirit that is necessary to enable a person to turn to Christ.

You can make that claim all day but you can't back it up with any evidence. It is funny that 70% of the people who actually took the drug disagreed with you though.

a.d.ivNonasNovembres · May 19, 2009

Not all "spiritual experiences" are from God.

Matthewj1985 · May 19, 2009

a.d.ivNonasNovembres said:
Not all "spiritual experiences" are from God.

How do you know?

a.d.ivNonasNovembres · May 19, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
How do you know?

If by God you mean the Christian God, then you can look to both Christian scripture and tradition and find again and again reports of experiences causes by the devil and not only experiences from God.

But even if we be more broad than that, God is a real person, as such He is not in opposition against Himself, yet peoples spiritual experiences often are, therefore how can it make sense that their source is the same?

green wolverine · May 19, 2009

a.d.ivNonasNovembres said:
If by God you mean the Christian God, then you can look to both Christian scripture and tradition and find again and again reports of experiences causes by the devil and not only experiences from God.

Agreed.

Getting high and coming to faith in Christ--the kind that lasts a lifetime are two different things. Jesus said in John 6:65:

And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Magic mushrooms don't cause the Father to grant the person access to Christ, only the Holy Spirit does that when He regenerates us.

Matthewj1985 · May 19, 2009

green wolverine said:
Agreed.

Getting high and coming to faith in Christ--the kind that lasts a lifetime are two different things. Jesus said in John 6:65:

Magic mushrooms don't cause the Father to grant the person access to Christ, only the Holy Spirit does that when He regenerates us.

And you know this how? Have you ever done mushrooms? Why are you so quick to dismiss the experiences of others? Maybe there is a reason God left such a unique plant on earth, possibly like phone booths with a direct line???

hiscosmicgoldfish · May 20, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
And you know this how? Have you ever done mushrooms? Why are you so quick to dismiss the experiences of others? Maybe there is a reason God left such a unique plant on earth, possibly like phone booths with a direct line???

I have, and they suck.

a.d.ivNonasNovembres · May 20, 2009

I have and I found it much more psychological than spiritual.
On their own mushrooms kind of freaked me out, but with MDMA they freaked me out in a fun way. They were fun, and there were plenty of "wow man that is so deeeep" moments. But in the aftermath all I gained from it were interesting stories.

I have heard some people say that hallucinogenic drugs can open the susceptible up to demonic attacks though so I would be very careful about it even if interesting stories are a good enough reason to try them. I don't think I notice any long term effects from my experimentations though, but they were infrequent and only few in number.

Matthewj1985 · May 20, 2009

a.d.ivNonasNovembres said:
I have and I found it much more psychological than spiritual.
On their own mushrooms kind of freaked me out, but with MDMA they freaked me out in a fun way. They were fun, and there were plenty of "wow man that is so deeeep" moments. But in the aftermath all I gained from it were interesting stories.

I have heard some people say that hallucinogenic drugs can open the susceptible up to demonic attacks though so I would be very careful about it even if interesting stories are a good enough reason to try them. I don't think I notice any long term effects from my experimentations though, but they were infrequent and only few in number.

As a whole Mushrooms, LSD, peyote and MDMA are fairly safe if used in moderation. That being said all of them VASTLY alter your perception of reality so things like driving, flying or even walking around in public would not be good ideas. Heavy MDMA users also tend to show permanent brain damage and in many cases require life long medication to feel "happy".

There is also a growing number of mental health professionals who are recognizing the potential value of these substances. I have seen claims that 1 "LSD session" in a controlled environment with a medical professional has the introspection value of 100 "regular" sessions.

I personally believe it is all just chemical reactions in the brain and even in heavy doses, Marijuana just made me that much more skeptical. On the other hand alcohol in heavy doses seems to make Christian doctrine "make sense" for me.

green wolverine · May 20, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
And you know this how? Have you ever done mushrooms? Why are you so quick to dismiss the experiences of others? Maybe there is a reason God left such a unique plant on earth, possibly like phone booths with a direct line???

No, as a matter of fact I haven't done them. Nor do I feel the need to.

My point is that God doesn't calll people to Himself through the use of dangerous drugs that alter your perception. God gives us a sound mind, not one that is stoned.

If you want to use mushrooms, have at it. Just don't assume it imparts some saving knowledge from God because it doesn't.

Matthewj1985 · May 20, 2009

green wolverine said:
No, as a matter of fact I have done them. Nor do I feel the need to.

My point is that God doesn't calll people to Himself through the use of dangerous drugs that alter your perception. God gives us a sound mind, not one that is stoned.

If you want to use mushrooms, have at it. Just don't assume it imparts some saving knowledge from God because it doesn't.

How do you account for those born with mental illness? Or how about mentally disabled adults who simply don't have the capacity to understand the concept of God and Jesus?

These are all your opinions based on your interpretation of the bible.

green wolverine · May 20, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
How do you account for those born with mental illness? Or how about mentally disabled adults who simply don't have the capacity to understand the concept of God and Jesus?

These are all your opinions based on your interpretation of the bible.

The thing you fail to understand is that it's God who draws a person to Himself making them willing and able to respond apart from their IQ or any mental illness that may be present.

Here's how the Westminster Confession of Faith explains God's electing His people unto salvation:

<H3 align=center>Chapter X

Click to expand...

Of Effectual Calling

I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call,[1] by His Word and Spirit,[2] out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ;[3] enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God,[4] taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh;[5] renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good,[6] and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ:[7] yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace.[8]

II. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man,[9] who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit,[10] he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.[11]

</H3>

Westminster Confession of Faith

My is and has been all along that whatever 'spiritual' experiences a person might have while under the influence of any drug, legal or illegal shouldn't be confused with coming to a saving faith in Christ. If you want to do drug, have at it.

synger · May 20, 2009

Almost all faiths have mystical traditions that find pathways, through ritual or drug, to ecstatic worship. Years ago I read about work studying ritual music/movement, where dancing or bowing or whirling were used to bring the body into a trance-like state of "higher consciousness." Similar results were found in those who prayed intently for a long time, or who sang together for an extended time. (That may be the reason why those college church retreats were so emotionally powerful for us who attended them!)

I think that God has created us in such a way that we can enjoy this sort of emotional/mystical experience with him. I also think that, like all his gifts, it can be corrupted for other uses.

MorphingDragon · May 22, 2009

I suggest some people read "He Came To Set The Captives Free"
Its about a testimony of an Ex High Priestess of Satan, coming to God.

It covers a lot of stuff Matthew scrutinises so much here.
(Not for the immature of heart)

Matthewj1985 · May 22, 2009

synger said:
Almost all faiths have mystical traditions that find pathways, through ritual or drug, to ecstatic worship. Years ago I read about work studying ritual music/movement, where dancing or bowing or whirling were used to bring the body into a trance-like state of "higher consciousness." Similar results were found in those who prayed intently for a long time, or who sang together for an extended time. (That may be the reason why those college church retreats were so emotionally powerful for us who attended them!)

I think that God has created us in such a way that we can enjoy this sort of emotional/mystical experience with him. I also think that, like all his gifts, it can be corrupted for other uses.

Are you saying that if a Christian takes a "trip" on a hallucinogen and has a mystical experience with God it is really God? I have a hard time with the idea that God left things like pot and mushrooms on the earth but didn't want use to use them. Bill Hicks has a great standup routine about pot and God but it contains quite a bit of profanity, look it up on youtube if you want.

Matthewj1985 · May 22, 2009

MorphingDragon said:
I suggest some people read "He Came To Set The Captives Free"
Its about a testimony of an Ex High Priestess of Satan, coming to God.

It covers a lot of stuff Matthew scrutinises so much here.
(Not for the immature of heart)

You do realize that the "Satanist Church" is largely made up of atheist who just want to anger Christians right? The founder said as much in interviews he did.

Hammster · May 23, 2009

MOD HAT ON

Thread closed for staff review.

MOD HAT OFF

Finding God in Magic Mushrooms

Well-Known Member

to God be the glory!

Well-Known Member

I don't know anything

Well-Known Member

I don't know anything

to God be the glory!

Well-Known Member

Liberal Anglican

I don't know anything

Well-Known Member

to God be the glory!

Well-Known Member

to God be the glory!

Confessional Liturgical Lutheran

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Carpe Chaos

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency