Fantasizing

Is it a sin to fantasize about SOMEONE FAKE like having a girlfriend or wife etc
Also is flirting in a non sexual way and having a crush on someone a sin?

I wondered about this non-action fantasy and I believe it's just part of human survival to stay confident without turning to depression or suicide .:*:. Internet porn has become a mania to many people, it even destroy marriages rather than aid them .:*:. That's why we need control or the authority of Jesus in our hearts to make us act righteously everywhere we go .:*:. I visit church every week to avoid the demon of lust and disease and surround myself with Christians who walk and talk together with the atttitude of Jesus .:*:. I even walk and talk with my pastor who is a man of God with the power of the holy spirit so strong inside him .:*:. I don't talk about the subject because he knows that everyone including himself can be affected by this kind of love that is not God's love in the spirit, but love in the flesh .:*:. True, correct and wholesome family love can be experienced between an adult man and a woman as God intended .:*:. Because Satan is constantly attacking our earthly minds and bodies, love can mean reaching out to anyone who has perfect health, beauty and personality - without Jesus, sexual crimes or diseases can happen.:*:. There are secret words or gestures that I show that are non-intrusive such as: shaking my handsome friend's hand with both of my hands .:*:. If a handsome young person walks near me, my eyes go cross-eyed, or my nose twinkle-twitches, or I say words irrelevantly like a comedic actor on Beverley Hillbillies the classic TV series .:*:.

mafia16 said:

Is it a sin to fantasize about SOMEONE FAKE like having a girlfriend or wife etc
Also is flirting in a non sexual way and having a crush on someone a sin?

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I could have started this thread myself as I had the same issue you do but then I heard a pastor say something interesting. If you fantasize about someone fake like a spouse or significant other what you are really doing is saying "God owes me a companion so while I wait for one, I will pretend I have one." You are trying to fulfill your own needs. You're being prideful, you are not accepting your life as it is. You continue to remain unsatisfied.

Don't you feel your growing dissatisfaction when you do this? I know I do. Its like "I want, I want, I want."

I like dreamin.

YouTube - i like dreamin'

This is the answer, not because it's popular but because it's true:

Life2Christ said:

I heard a pastor say something interesting. If you fantasize about someone fake like a spouse or significant other what you are really doing is saying "God owes me a companion so while I wait for one, I will pretend I have one." You are trying to fulfill your own needs. You're being prideful, you are not accepting your life as it is. You continue to remain unsatisfied.

Don't you feel your growing dissatisfaction when you do this? I know I do. Its like "I want, I want, I want."

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And here's our solution for an amazing array of problems, including this one:

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Life2Christ said:

I could have started this thread myself as I had the same issue you do but then I heard a pastor say something interesting. If you fantasize about someone fake like a spouse or significant other what you are really doing is saying "God owes me a companion so while I wait for one, I will pretend I have one." You are trying to fulfill your own needs. You're being prideful, you are not accepting your life as it is. You continue to remain unsatisfied.

Don't you feel your growing dissatisfaction when you do this? I know I do. Its like "I want, I want, I want."

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Dident Adam long for a spouse .....

If you call everything pridful and selfish that really isent pretty soon the word looses its true meaning. Maybe try pulling up the websters definintion of prideful and posting it for us as an educational excersize. They are like catch all words and phrases when we feel like we need to make our rebuke for the day but really have nothing to base it on. That and lust, to some people everything under the sun regarding relations between opposite sex's is all of a sudden lust ...

bored said:

Dident Adam long for a spouse .....

If you call everything pridful and selfish that really isent pretty soon the word looses its true meaning.

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Test the theory out yourself. Is your dissatisfaction in a spouse growing when you fantasize...or are you satisfied fantasizing on a continual basis?

Life2Christ said:

Test the theory out yourself. Is your dissatisfaction in a spouse growing when you fantasize...or are you satisfied fantasizing on a continual basis?

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If you long for a spouse then you should do something about it like the character in the bible that work for 7 years for a wife. The longing motivates you to do something about it, so the longing (fantisizeing) itself is not wrong. It could be considered unhealthy if all you do is long and dont do anything about it (not nessicarily sin though), of course it could cause you to covet your neighbors wife because you are to lazy to find your own. Of course in the process of looking is where God does his work and where prayer comes into play, you do your part and God does his.

I find this phenomena with intellectual lazyness as well. They want to participate in the action but have no idea what they are talking about because they are to lazy to study.

Life2Christ said:

I could have started this thread myself as I had the same issue you do but then I heard a pastor say something interesting. If you fantasize about someone fake like a spouse or significant other what you are really doing is saying "God owes me a companion so while I wait for one, I will pretend I have one." You are trying to fulfill your own needs. You're being prideful, you are not accepting your life as it is. You continue to remain unsatisfied.

Don't you feel your growing dissatisfaction when you do this? I know I do. Its like "I want, I want, I want."

Click to expand...

Wow!

bored said:

The longing motivates you to do something about it, so the longing (fantisizeing) itself is not wrong. It could be considered unhealthy if all you do is long and dont do anything about it (not nessicarily sin though), of course it could cause you to covet your neighbors wife because you are to lazy to find your own.

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I think what Mafia 16 is implying is that here is something questionable about a FAKE spouse in relation to your fantasies. Imagining a fake spouse is giving yourself license to let your imagination run wild and then justifying it by saying, "I can fantasize sex as long as it is within the context of a marriage." So you're trying to find a backdoor to legitimize the fantasy. Look I have been there too but I can recognize it for what it is: not righteous. It is tough. The best course of action is to give up the fantasy and by doing so you will be releasing your dissatisfaction. You'll be gaining a closer relationship with God and the purity of mind that is needed to walk with Christ. To be successful, you have to love righteousness more than earth-mindedness.

I find that christans that support view points similar to the no MB no porn etc etc use the word "tough" when really its both impractial and unhealthy. Just making a statement and then saying its "tough" is not good enough there has to be a path forward and an inbetween solution otherwise no one will take you seriously.

I have found fantasy to be an educational sandbox - a way to explore themes of morality, how I might live differently, what life might be like if so and so conditions existed, what it might be like to walk in another's shoes, etc...

For example, I have fantasised what life might be like if I got everything I wanted. Every desire fulfilled, universal adoration, unlimited talent. Eventually the senario becomes a horror - a senario played out for real by the likes of the Kurt Cobains and Michael Jacksons. So all in the safety of my imagination, wisdom has been taught to me. The Spirit of God teaching me the way of things.

In this sense, I see fantasy as not only a form of prayer, but a means of dialogue with God. Far better than anything that can be uttered with limited language.

Why would God, who loves us profoundly, look at our fantasies and feel that we are cheating Him? What a horrible glimpse at the perverted consciences some people have that this forum provides. An image of God as some offended, small minded pastor, who spites us because we are supplying ourselves with a desperate, unfulfilled need.

Does this picture of a monkey raised in an experiement, clinging to a fake mother because it has nothing else, make you feel indignation or compassion? Do you want to pick up the creature and cradle it in your arms, or throw it into the outer darkness?

Morphane said:

An image of God as some offended, small minded pastor, who spites us because we are supplying ourselves with a desperate, unfulfilled need.

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Then where does it end? How much should humans be supplying themselves with desires to be fulfilled? This is the slippery slope from which I came here on my knees begging Jesus to help me. If you are supplying yourselves where does God fit in?

bored said:

I find that christans that support view points similar to the no MB no porn etc etc.

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Jesus said deny yourself and follow me. There is no middle ground. Just like there is no middle ground to controlling alcoholism or drug addiction.

Life2Christ said:

Jesus said deny yourself and follow me. There is no middle ground. Just like there is no middle ground to controlling alcoholism or drug addiction.

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Be careful with a "no middle-ground" approach. There is no middle ground in a few areas (blasphemy for example), but many have shades of gray. Having an occasional drink, joining an office sports pool, and appreciating beauty in others may not be sinful. But those behaviors require discipline. Doing them in excess (ie. drunkenness, degenerate gambling, and visiting strip clubs) is sinful.

Having a fantasy is similar... it can be a good thing, as described by Morphane's educational sandbox, as long as it doesn't become an obsession. For example, I've "fantasized" about having a totally different career. That may actually happen one day, and it's good to consider my options. But if the fantasy started to become my only desired reality, I have a problem. That's where you need discipline.

The OP asked about imagining being married or having a significant other. This too is totally normal and healthy until you start dwelling on it all the time, or you become angry or depressed about the absence of it.

One final caution: going too far in denying yourself can actually be an excess or addiction in itself.

VertigoAge said:

Be careful with a "no middle-ground" approach. One final caution: going too far in denying yourself can actually be an excess or addiction in itself.

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Vertigo Age, do you feel this way with the examples cited: mb & porn?

Life2Christ said:

Then where does it end? How much should humans be supplying themselves with desires to be fulfilled? This is the slippery slope from which I came here on my knees begging Jesus to help me. If you are supplying yourselves where does God fit in?

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It ends when the fantasy collapses. Like Pop Goes the Weasel.

When you realise that no fantasy, and no actual pleasure brings satisfaction, and that pursuing desires is like chasing your own tail, or chasing that carrot perpetually out of reach. When you realise this, you simply stop. Then something amazing happens...

God is not something we have to fit into our lives. We are in God like a fish is in water.

Wow...I don't think I can be any more confused. I accepted Jesus in my heart a long time ago, went down a wrong path, and about seven years ago began my journey back to the Lord. I have been doing a bible study for the past two years and I have to say I feel I haven't even started to scratch the surface. My point is...I may be a bit ignorant in the following statements but bear with me...

The one comment/post made that struck me was VertigoAge's statement about appreciating beauty in others, as long as done in moderation, is not sinful. That part was grouped with drinking, gambling,ect. so it may be I am misinterpreting what was meant. However, "Appreciating" beauty in others, I believe, should be done everyday and I think it is not sinful. If you are appreciating beauty in others, in anything God has created for that matter, I believe you are thanking God for His creations, are you not? It reminds me of a statement made during one of my studies where pastor mentioned that God could have made everything we see in black and white but He didn't. He blessed us with the gift of beautiful colors. The gift of beauty. I don't think it is wrong to see someone on the street, whether you are married or not and think that person is beautiful.

In response to the "fantasy" part...I agree that it is a grey area (another one of God's beautiful colors ). There are so many factors to be considered. I agree that porn is definitely sinful in every way. I don't think anything good comes from porn. If someone can think of something good that comes from even occasional usage of porn, I would love to hear that argument. Fantasizing about having a wife or husband if you are not married I would not believe to be a sin. God wants us to marry and procreate so why would imagining yourself as having these gifts someday to be sinful? If you are married and you fantisize, I have been told that even the thought is considered to be adulterous in God's eyes. This becomes a grey area for me in my own situation. I am married and feel that I have come to a crossroads with the man I married. I feel his journey towards the Lord is tainted and feel his demons have come between my childrens' and my own journey towards Lord. Almost everyday I observe a man who runs an after school program. He is so great with the kids for whom he cares and on many occasions has managed to win the heart of my little boy who has PDD due to a brain malformity. My boy typically ignores men (I have a feeling its because he does not have a good relationship with my husband). I admit to imagining myself with him, but never in a sexual manner. I just imagine he is my husband. I did struggle with this, feeling I was wrong to fatasize about another man. I realized one day though it was not that I was imagining myself with another man literally, but figuratively. Are you being, as I think Life2Christ (and pardon me if I am mis-quoting here) referred to as "prideful" by "wanting" something better if it is wanting something better for someone else? In other words, my "fantasy" about this other man was more about his more Christ-like nature and having that for my children's sake, not necessarily for ME (I think if my fantasy was for my benefit it would have been more sexual in nature).

In my experience, you can ask advice and get so many different ideas - as illustrated in this thread. People have their ideas and thoughts and unfortunately for us our intelligence and our own individual history gives us too much room for interpretation of Lord's word. We read the Bible, we go to church, we do our studies and continue to pray and help others. I feel often times we focus too much on what we shouldn't be doing and not on what we need to do. Ultimately our ability to release ourselves from the driving wheel and let the Holy Spirt guide us is what determines how God wants us to live our lives.

eedj said:

The one comment/post made that struck me was VertigoAge's statement about appreciating beauty in others, as long as done in moderation, is not sinful. That part was grouped with drinking, gambling,ect. so it may be I am misinterpreting what was meant.

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Thanks for the feedback. By moderation, I meant "how you do it" not "how often you do it". Physical beauty of the opposite sex should be appreciated for sure, but it can also be dangerous if the context goes further down the continuum towards fantasy and eventually into lust. Here's what I mean by the alcohol and gambling analogy. For most people, having one drink or participating in an office sports pool is a very positive social circumstance. But there is a question of intent... are you drinking to get drunk? Gambling to get rich or feel the rush? Or just enjoying a small slice of life? Similarly, while innocent people watching and appreciation of beauty may be enjoyable to many of us, it may not be the best choice to proactively go to the swimming pool, mall, or company happy hour in order to "scope the scenery".

I'll give you an example in my own past. Sometimes when I was in a store and caught a glance of an attractive woman, I would almost unconsciously change course and walk into her aisle to get a closer look. Was I fantasizing about her when I got home? No. Was it wrong to appreciate her looks the first time I saw her? No. Is this pretty normal behavior for guy (even a married one)? Yes. But I think it crossed the line when I went back for that second look, so I try not to do that.

eedj said:

In response to the "fantasy" part...I agree that it is a grey area (another one of God's beautiful colors ). There are so many factors to be considered. I agree that porn is definitely sinful in every way.

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Unfortunately, the word porn is used pretty broadly today, and can potentially be just as gray. Does porn have to be a picture or video, or can it be an erotic novel? Does it have to involve sex acts or even nudity? The recent controversy over the GQ pictures of the Glee cast is an example of that line.

For what it's worth, here is my take (which may be or may not be near the mark): X rated porn is degrading, cheapens sex, and is usually sinful for the participants and viewers. Steamy R rated movies, explicit novels, and trashy TV shows can also glorify casual sex and should be approached with caution. Too much exposure can be sinful or a gateway into the harder stuff. That said, I do believe that the human body should not necessarily be shamed and hidden from view. I think there is a place for artistic nude photography and art... but this too can become addictive or act as a gateway to harder porn.

The question all comes back to the topic at hand: fantasizing. Is there a place for it, and how much is healthy? I believe the answer to the first question is yes, but the second one is very hard to quantify. The measuring stick that my wife and I use is basically this: Does it hinder my relationships with God? Do I have to hide it from my wife? Does it eventually become frequent or progress to something worse? Does it lead to feelings of discontent or unrest? If the answer to all of those questions is "no", then I think fantasy can be a fun and healthy part of life.