Explaining evil to non-believers

Tnmusicman · Jun 30, 2012

How do you (as Christians) explain evil in the world to non-believers? I've tried and maybe sometimes its good enough but it seems there is an idea that evil in the world actually proves God exists. I tend to run into a wall more than I should and I wonder how some other Christians deal with this problem?!?

parsley · Jun 30, 2012

Try to get it out of the religious realm, and show them how people hurt each other. A robber invades a home and takes what is not theirs, causing homeowners loss and permanent anxiety. An abuser injures and terrorizes, and changes the life of the victim.

God hates these ways that people destroy and abuse others. He acts out of protection -- and prevention.

jdbear · Jun 30, 2012

God defined what is good and evil. He created us with free will. Evil exists in this world because people choose it.

Tnmusicman · Jul 1, 2012

jdbear said:
God defined what is good and evil. He created us with free will. Evil exists in this world because people choose it.

True, but what about those that say God allowed so much evil in the bible that He couldn't possibly be good? I've always held to the free will explanation but I seem to have a hard time convincing non-believers of that.

Tnmusicman · Jul 1, 2012

parsley said:
Try to get it out of the religious realm, and show them how people hurt each other. A robber invades a home and takes what is not theirs, causing homeowners loss and permanent anxiety. An abuser injures and terrorizes, and changes the life of the victim.

God hates these ways that people destroy and abuse others. He acts out of protection -- and prevention.

Right. I just don't know how to crack the atheist shell and convince them that Jesus taught love your neighbor as yourself when they throw the old testament at me. I would love to explain why evil is permitted and explain it outsid of the religious perspective but since the religious perspective is what condems evil I really can't explain it outside of religious perspective. I mean, if one is trying to make the point that Jesus taught love over hate how do in explain most of the old testament??

gav1nzdad · Jul 1, 2012

I'm a christian too. But if you want to explain evil to say an atheist, you're going to have to come at it from a different perspective. Try using the explanation that each of us have an intuitive understanding of morality. In other words, we know when something "wrong" is done because we empathize with the one who is "wronged".

dobson67 · Jul 1, 2012

I start out explaining the obvious evils that pretty much anyone can agree on (Stealing, Murder, Lying, etc.) Then work from there. For example I might explain to them that Lying is the same as Bearing false witness (you have to lie to do that). Take it slow with them, and you can usually tell if you've "sparked" an interest. Then go from there. Again, take it slow, let it work it's way into their thoughts. After a while it's a piece of cake! Look at the 10 commandments for ideas:

You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
You shall not murder.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)
You shall not covet your neighbors house; you shall not covet your neighbors wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbors.

Work from those points on.

CounselorForChrist · Jul 1, 2012

I personally find it near impossible to describe evil to my friends or even something like sins. I mean when you tell an atheist who looks at porn "Its a sin!", it doesn't make sense to them because they don't have God in their hearts. And even the bible says the truth will fall on deaf ears, often until they become a christian and realize just what is a sin or evil.

If you want to win the (more or less) battle of proving them to God is real you tell them you can't prove hes real, just as they can't rrvoe hes not real. Although that problem with saying that is we KNOW there is proof he is real, but they tend to ignore the proof anyways. I use the prophicies leading to Christs return as the biggest "physical" proof. Every prohecy has been right thus far with only a few remaining. They can't ignore that proof (although they usually find a way to).

Also you can ask them "Have you searched every inch of the known universe and all its "dimensions"? If not then how can you say he is not real when you haven't searched everywhere?". They usually stumble on this because obviously no one has searched the universe and probably no one ever will since God will be back before then. And in reallity I doubt they would find God since he is everywhere and not some phisycal person just sitting in the middle of the universe.

Lastly I did use to try one thing, but I was told its a dangerous thing to say. And that is I ask them if they gamble. Then I ask would the place a bet if the odds were 50/50. When they say yes I say this:
"Well lets go by your logic, lets assume God is not real as you stated. When I die my 50/50 is I'll see heaven or I'll see nothing (and not know anyways). Your 50/50 is you will see nothing or see hell. Do you REALLY want to play those odds?"

Again I don't reccomend saying that because even though your doing a hypthetical you don't want them thinking its how you really think. But often times I do have people admit they don't like those odds.

singpeace · Jul 1, 2012

It is frustrating when a non-believer cites the Old Testament concerning the wrath of God. What most don't know is that in the few instances where God sent his wrath, He first sent his warnings. These people had turned their backs on God and were sacrificing their own children to a false God. God warned them time and time again that if they did not stop such evil, He would stop it for them. He warned them for several generations until He could not stand it another day. He sent the Israelite soldiers to destroy that city.

Another thing many do not get is that while the Old Testament records God's wrath being poured out, it also records His great mercy and forgiveness. In the book of Judges alone God's people turned their backs on God and worshiped false gods and did great evil 31 times; and each time, they found themselves trapped and taken into slavery. Each time they cried out for God to save them, and He did... 31 times He forgave them, rescued them, and took them back.

God's mercy, salvation, protection, forgiveness, and love is recorded many many times more than his wrath. He cries out for his children to stop doing evil and to come back home to him long before He reaches that moment where He has to take steps.

Blankstamped · Jul 2, 2012

I'm an atheist- if you would like to bounce some of these arguments my way, I'd be happy to answer them. However, I won't intrude if it would bother anyone.

soldierundercommand · Jul 2, 2012

Tnmusicman said:
Right. I just don't know how to crack the atheist shell and convince them that Jesus taught love your neighbor as yourself when they throw the old testament at me. I would love to explain why evil is permitted and explain it outsid of the religious perspective but since the religious perspective is what condems evil I really can't explain it outside of religious perspective. I mean, if one is trying to make the point that Jesus taught love over hate how do in explain most of the old testament??

Neither can a non believer understand these things because they are spiritual in nature. You can put on your best argument, but they are blinded to the truth that they refuse to acknowledge. Light rejected is light denied. The things of God are given to those who can see. Non believer's read the Bible like they would read any other book. It's why they can't see....we need the Holy Spirit to teach us and help us understand/discern....when Jesus touched the blind man, he could see.

IisJustMe · Jul 2, 2012

Tnmusicman said:
Right. I just don't know how to crack the atheist shell and convince them that Jesus taught love your neighbor as yourself when they throw the old testament at me.

That isn't your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. If we could "convince" anyone into heaven, then Jesus would have died for nothing and the Holy Spirit would be an extraneous accouterment of faith.

Tnmusicman said:
I would love to explain why evil is permitted and explain it outsid of the religious perspective but since the religious perspective is what condems evil I really can't explain it outside of religious perspective. I mean, if one is trying to make the point that Jesus taught love over hate how do in explain most of the old testament??

Do they understand the need for law? If not, then ask them if it's OK to occasionally jaywalk. The answer is probably "yes." So, is it then OK to steal? That will raise an eyebrow, but the answer will often be, if not "yes" then at least, "Depends." Then ask is it OK to kill someone just because you don't like them? That will undoubtedly bring about a "no." Point out, then, that all these things are illegal according to the law, and remarkably, most of the things that man considers illegal are also illegal, or immoral -- sin, in other words -- in the eyes of God. They won't be able to argue much with that.

Then you have to show them how the "personal sins that don't hurt anyone" are still an affront to God. Smoking, excessive drinking, drugs, etc., being a defilement of the Temple, for example. But still, you won't win anyone to Christ. The Holy Spirit draws them to Him. It's just up to you to put up signposts. You can do that most effectively by showing how you live.

Emmy · Jul 2, 2012

Dear Tnmusikman.The two Commandments which Jesus gave us, and made sure we understood, are easy enough to comprehend and remember. But best of all, they are straightforward enough to live by and imitate. In fact, they are best explained and followed by, " Do unto all, as you would love to be done to:" lovingly and no strings attached. As soon as we all understand this and live by accordingly, this imperfect world will become more and more perfect, and God will rule as our Worthy Heavenly Father.
As for explaining evil to non-believers, we can only show the world by loving and caring, as God wants us to. Love must become our only weapon to fight with, and Love for God must be so sincere, that every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that God is our Heavenly Father.
I say this with love, Tnmusikman. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
The two Commandments: Jesus tells a Lawyer: St.Matthews, chapter 22, verses 35-40: 1) Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 2) Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Tnmusicman · Jul 2, 2012

Blankstamped said:
I'm an atheist- if you would like to bounce some of these arguments my way, I'd be happy to answer them. However, I won't intrude if it would bother anyone.

Please feel free.

Tnmusicman · Jul 2, 2012

IisJustMe said:
That isn't your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. If we could "convince" anyone into heaven, then Jesus would have died for nothing and the Holy Spirit would be an extraneous accouterment of faith.Do they understand the need for law? If not, then ask them if it's OK to occasionally jaywalk. The answer is probably "yes." So, is it then OK to steal? That will raise an eyebrow, but the answer will often be, if not "yes" then at least, "Depends." Then ask is it OK to kill someone just because you don't like them? That will undoubtedly bring about a "no." Point out, then, that all these things are illegal according to the law, and remarkably, most of the things that man considers illegal are also illegal, or immoral -- sin, in other words -- in the eyes of God. They won't be able to argue much with that.

Then you have to show them how the "personal sins that don't hurt anyone" are still an affront to God. Smoking, excessive drinking, drugs, etc., being a defilement of the Temple, for example. But still, you won't win anyone to Christ. The Holy Spirit draws them to Him. It's just up to you to put up signposts. You can do that most effectively by showing how you live.

That isn't your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. If we could "convince" anyone into heaven, then Jesus would have died for nothing

You are right and I should have worded it different. I meant how could I effectively explain?

seeingeyes · Jul 2, 2012

Don't unbelievers already know that evil exists? Why does that need to be explained?

...don't we have some good news for them?

Tnmusicman · Jul 2, 2012

IisJustMe said:
That isn't your job. That's the job of the Holy Spirit. If we could "convince" anyone into heaven, then Jesus would have died for nothing and the Holy Spirit would be an extraneous accouterment of faith.Do they understand the need for law? If not, then ask them if it's OK to occasionally jaywalk. The answer is probably "yes." So, is it then OK to steal? That will raise an eyebrow, but the answer will often be, if not "yes" then at least, "Depends." Then ask is it OK to kill someone just because you don't like them? That will undoubtedly bring about a "no." Point out, then, that all these things are illegal according to the law, and remarkably, most of the things that man considers illegal are also illegal, or immoral -- sin, in other words -- in the eyes of God. They won't be able to argue much with that.

Then you have to show them how the "personal sins that don't hurt anyone" are still an affront to God. Smoking, excessive drinking, drugs, etc., being a defilement of the Temple, for example. But still, you won't win anyone to Christ. The Holy Spirit draws them to Him. It's just up to you to put up signposts. You can do that most effectively by showing how you live.

Yes,I will try and implement the above suggestions. Thank you for your post. It will be beneficial to all.

Tnmusicman · Jul 2, 2012

dobson67 said:
I start out explaining the obvious evils that pretty much anyone can agree on (Stealing, Murder, Lying, etc.) Then work from there. For example I might explain to them that Lying is the same as Bearing false witness (you have to lie to do that). Take it slow with them, and you can usually tell if you've "sparked" an interest. Then go from there. Again, take it slow, let it work it's way into their thoughts. After a while it's a piece of cake! Look at the 10 commandments for ideas:

You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not covet your neighbors house; you shall not covet your neighbors wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbors.

Work from those points on.

Good suggestion. Thank you for posting.

Tnmusicman · Jul 2, 2012

dobson67 said:
I start out explaining the obvious evils that pretty much anyone can agree on (Stealing, Murder, Lying, etc.) Then work from there. For example I might explain to them that Lying is the same as Bearing false witness (you have to lie to do that). Take it slow with them, and you can usually tell if you've "sparked" an interest. Then go from there. Again, take it slow, let it work it's way into their thoughts. After a while it's a piece of cake! Look at the 10 commandments for ideas:

You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

You shall not murder.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

(This is one that Christians and Non-Christians can agree on)

You shall not covet your neighbors house; you shall not covet your neighbors wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbors.

Work from those points on.

Well, the ten commandments are great but the atheists I deal with love to tell me that there are 600 some-odd commandments in the bible and some are immoral. I'm not sure how to explain those and why they are there.

Emmy said:
Dear Tnmusikman.The two Commandments which Jesus gave us, and made sure we understood, are easy enough to comprehend and remember. But best of all, they are straightforward enough to live by and imitate. In fact, they are best explained and followed by, " Do unto all, as you would love to be done to:" lovingly and no strings attached. As soon as we all understand this and live by accordingly, this imperfect world will become more and more perfect, and God will rule as our Worthy Heavenly Father.
As for explaining evil to non-believers, we can only show the world by loving and caring, as God wants us to. Love must become our only weapon to fight with, and Love for God must be so sincere, that every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that God is our Heavenly Father.
I say this with love, Tnmusikman. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
The two Commandments: Jesus tells a Lawyer: St.Matthews, chapter 22, verses 35-40: 1) Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 2) Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus points out:
" On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Thanks for this post,my sister. You are a blessing to me.

dobson67 · Jul 2, 2012

Don't start right out telling an atheist they are the ten commandments. Work up to that later on.

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