Existentialism

Im_A · Dec 18, 2005

here lately, i have been having this huge curiosity about this. i have some books to get me started, but i wouldn't mind trying to get a discussion started about this briefly. and please all non-Christians, atheists, agnostics, Christians, deists, whoever join in the discussion in a friendly/loving manner.

doing some research about this, there seems to be 3 schools of thought within the existence of God and humanity. atheistic, Christian and the idea that God's existence is irrelevant to humanity's existence. then i noticed there seems to be three main philosophers within each school of thought.

atheistic-Sartre
Chrisitian-Kierkegarrd
the irrelevance-Heidegger

as a Christian, i find myself somewhere between Kierkegarrd and Heidegger, even though to be more honest i find myself going more towards Heidegger.

but i don't want to say that just yet without reading books of theirs and study their work some. i've started The Courage to Be by Paul Tillich, a liberal Christian existentialist Luther minister.

i really wouldn't mind reading some of Sartre and anyone else who can fit into that category.

can anyone give a starting point with these authors, or any other authors in existentialism?

currently i have these books:
Existentialism from Dostoevsky to Sartre-Walter Kaufmann
Basic Writings of Nietzsche-Walter Kaufmann, Introdcution by Peter Gay
Crime and Punishment-Fydor Dostoevsky
The Metaphorsis-Franz Kafka

anymore to add would be great. God Bless you all! <><

FreezBee · Dec 18, 2005

tattedsaint said:
currently i have these books:
Existentialism from Dostoevsky to Sartre-Walter Kaufmann
Basic Writings of Nietzsche-Walter Kaufmann, Introdcution by Peter Gay
Crime and Punishment-Fydor Dostoevsky
The Metaphorsis-Franz Kafka

Hi tattedsaint;

It's an interesting list of books you have there, and depending on your familiarity with philosophy, I would say they are a good starting point.

For fiction litterature I would add "The Process" ("Der Prozess") and possibly "The Castle" ("Der Schloss"), both by Kafka.

Personally I like the books of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry. Also Pär Lagerkvist is one of my favorites; but he may have been translated into English.

- FreezBee

Received · Dec 18, 2005

You would be wise to get everything you can by existentialism and consume it despite its knawing obscurity in some passages (you've read Heidegger enough to grasp this no doubt!). It is close to being a second religion from my perspective. Existentialism with a pragmatic streak -- that is the ideal individual; the only philosophy synthesis that actually considers life, and not useless or pedantic metaphysical questions.

That said:

The Sickness Unto Death -- Kierkegaard
Fear and Trembling -- Kierkegaard
The Gay Science -- Nietzsche
A Geneology of Morals -- Nietzsche
Thus Spoke Zarathustra -- Nietzsche
Being and Time -- Heidegger (I haven't read it; read it if you think you're a superman of intelligence)
Existentialism as a Humanism or Existentialism and Human Emotions -- Sartre
Being and Nothingness -- Sartre
The Brothers Karamazov -- Dostoevsky
Notes from Underground -- Dostoevsky (highly recommended)
The Myth of Sisyphus -- Camus (again, highly recommended)
The Tragic Sense of Life -- Miguel de Unamuno
Anything by Kafka

There is a brilliant new compilation by the Modern Library, edited by Gordon Marino, called Existentialism, which for its cheapness has significant passages from all the titles listed here, save The Gay Science, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and The Tragic Sense of Life. I would start here, and when you are addicted, start with Kierkegaard and Nietzsche for non-fiction, and Dostoevsky for fiction.

Happy reading!

PKJ · Dec 18, 2005

Anything by Camus. Also my essays, if you read French

Orontes · Dec 19, 2005

tattedsaint said:
here lately, i have been having this huge curiosity about this. i have some books to get me started, but i wouldn't mind trying to get a discussion started about this briefly.

Hi Tattedsaint,

Existentialism, like deconstruction today, is a very abused term. I think it is best to qualify what existentialism actually entails. I think Sartre is the best writer and proponent of an unadulterated Existentialist philosophy. He is also a good example of its logical failings.

I don't think Heidegger can really be considered an existentialist except in the loosest of terms. Kierkegaard is often cited as an existentialist, but I think this is more due to his juxtaposition contra Hegel than someone with his metaphysical assumptions can really allow. Recall, the existentialist label is typically applied backward (in the wake of Sartre and Camus) to individuals who never opted for the identification. In short, the term needs to be qualified before a proper evaluation is possible.

FreezBee · Dec 20, 2005

Orontes said:
Existentialism, like deconstruction today, is a very abused term. I think it is best to qualify what existentialism actually entails. I think Sartre is the best writer and proponent of an unadulterated Existentialist philosophy. He is also a good example of its logical failings.

Quite true - (except I personally am no fan of Sartre, but just ignore that ).

Orontes said:
I don't think Heidegger can really be considered an existentialist except in the loosest of terms. Kierkegaard is often cited as an existentialist, but I think this is more due to his juxtaposition contra Hegel than someone with his metaphysical assumptions can really allow.

Yes, these are the most common conceptions as of today.

If we follow the line from hermeneutism to existentialism, then Kierkegaard does come in as Bible interpreter - his focus was on interpreting the Bible as talking to the reader personally, to tell the reader, what to do, how to live. It's an attempt to overcome nihilism by using the Bible as a guide.

Karl Jaspers - as an alternative to Heidegger (who is unreadable in English translation, imho ), also follows a hermeneutic line, though of course he focuses less on Bible interpretation than on interpreting human behaviour.

Orontes said:
Recall, the existentialist label is typically applied backward (in the wake of Sartre and Camus) to individuals who never opted for the identification. In short, the term needs to be qualified before a proper evaluation is possible.

Sartre and Camus may be more "hard-core" existentialists - I prefer Camus, he is the better author, imho But after here it boils down to "the absurd" and the postmodern general confusion.

- FreezBee

Received · Dec 20, 2005

I'm all down with Camus for atheistic philosopher; his philosophy was pragmatic, and his writing was extremely accessible -- compare this to the obscurity of Sartre and particularly Heidegger. As for theists, gotta go with Kierkegaard, though he has rants of intentional (though poetic) obscurity; down with Dostoevsky as well.

Patzak · Dec 20, 2005

I'd recommend Sartre for a start, he's probably the most representative of the existentialist movement (if there ever was such a thing of course). Existentialism as a Humanism is probably the best place to begin - a much easier read than Being and Nothingness IMO. In fact, I'd say that if you can handle Being and Nothingness, you could also try your luck with Heidegger - I found the first half of Being and Time quite managable (provided that I took notes on the meanings of specific terms) and a very rewarding read. The first few chapters of Was ist Metaphysik? are a good read as well, though probably not existentialism anymore. Heidegger after the Kehre is a different story though, I find it all completely beyond my understanding.

Regarding Camus: he's a better read than Sartre, but I just don't find him as intelectually stimulating. Probably a matter of personal preference though.

Moros · Dec 20, 2005

Camus' The Stranger is existentialism at its finest. The Plague is good also.

talitha · Dec 20, 2005

Existentialism just about ate my lunch, so to speak, when I was in college..... Although I read some Kierkegaard and a little Tillich, overall I found it to be disappointingly incompatible with my faith - and almost lost my faith forever....

That said, I have a joke for you guys - I love obscure humor.....

Q - What's the difference between an apple and an existentialist?
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
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l
A - nothing

Orontes · Dec 21, 2005

FreezBee said:
Quite true - (except I personally am no fan of Sartre, but just ignore that ).

I'm not a fan either. I think Sartre's fundamental misunderstanding of Heidegger led him to commit some rather appalling rational errors. Even so, I think existentialism should be more properly confined to those who actually adopted the term and gave the position its philosophical basis. Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky etc. are rather ad hoc additions.

Orontes · Dec 21, 2005

Talitha

I like your avatar snowflakes.

depthdeception · Dec 24, 2005

PKJ said:
Anything by Camus.

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