evolution question

cuja1 · Oct 21, 2015

Does anyone know, according to scientists, if life still forms today out of non-living material?

Squeegee Beckenheim · Oct 21, 2015

That's not an evolution question, that's an abiogenesis question.

cuja1 · Oct 21, 2015

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
That's not an evolution question, that's an abiogenesis question.

oh, ok, can anyone answer that for me?

JackRT · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
oh, ok, can anyone answer that for me?

Since it happened once it could possibly happen again. On the other hand it would have to survive in competition with existing life forms that have a 4 billion year advantage.

Squeegee Beckenheim · Oct 21, 2015

The answer is not as far as is known, because conditions on the Earth now are very different to conditions on the Earth when life formed.

cuja1 · Oct 21, 2015

I saw on Yahoo today that scientists discovered that life may have began 4.1 billion years ago as opposed to 3.8 billion which they previously thought. One scientist said that under the right conditions life forms very easily.

It just got me wondering if it is still occurring today.

Dr GS Hurd · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
Does anyone know, according to scientists, if life still forms today out of non-living material?

Charles R. Darwin, in a 1871 letter to the botanist Joseph Hooker wrote, "It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are present, which could ever have been present. But if (and Oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter would be instantly devoured or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed."

Generally speaking, conditions today are very different from how things were 3.8 billion years ago. A good book on the origin of life that should be readable for a non-scientist is David Deamer's, "First Life," (2011 University of California Press).

cuja1 · Oct 21, 2015

Dr GS Hurd said:
Charles R. Darwin, in a 1871 letter to the botanist Joseph Hooker wrote, "It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are present, which could ever have been present. But if (and Oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter would be instantly devoured or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed."

Generally speaking, conditions today are very different from how things were 3.8 billion years ago. A good book on the origin of life that should be readable for a non-scientist is David Deamer's, "First Life," (2011 University of California Press).

ok thank you

1213 · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
I saw on Yahoo today that scientists discovered that life may have began 4.1 billion years ago as opposed to 3.8 billion which they previously thought. One scientist said that under the right conditions life forms very easily.

It just got me wondering if it is still occurring today.

If it would be true, it should be easy to test in laboratory, where existing species would not kill the new life forms. That has not happened, so there is good reason not to believe that life could be born spontaneously.

Loudmouth · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
Does anyone know, according to scientists, if life still forms today out of non-living material?

Life produces a lot of enzymes and chemicals that make abiogenesis less likely. Specifically, life produces DNases, RNases, proteases, and oxygen. All of these would quickly kill off many of the hypothesized first life forms that abiogenesis research has proposed. I know from personal experience that you have to go to great lengths in the lab to get rid of these enzymes. If you use something as clean as tap water you will lose your RNA to RNases.

Loudmouth · Oct 21, 2015

1213 said:
If it would be true, it should be easy to test in laboratory, where existing species would not kill the new life forms. That has not happened, so there is good reason not to believe that life could be born spontaneously.

Why should it be easy? We are talking about a series of chemical reactions that required a vessel the size of Earth and millions of years to occur. One flask in a lab that sits for a couple of weeks isn't even close.

Grandpa4 · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
Does anyone know, according to scientists, if life still forms today out of non-living material?

Who says scientists who deny the truth of God's word have any answers? God created everything--including life.

Loudmouth · Oct 21, 2015

Grandpa4 said:
Who says scientists who deny the truth of God's word have any answers? God created everything--including life.

Didn't your parents teach you about the "birds and the bees"? Do you really think that babies just pop into existence from nowhere?

RickG · Oct 21, 2015

Grandpa4 said:
Who says scientists who deny the truth of God's word have any answers? God created everything--including life.

From the second thread down in this forum: (Guidelines for all Discussion and Debate Forums)

No General Apologetics Topics

Apologetics is a branch of theology that concerns itself with defending or proving the truths of the Christian faith and doctrines. Discussion and debate on subjects related to general apologetics are not allowed in the Discussion and Debate category forums. Christians who would like to discuss apologetics may do so in the Christian Apologetics forum.

Dr GS Hurd · Oct 21, 2015

1213 said:
If it would be true, it should be easy to test in laboratory, where existing species would not kill the new life forms. That has not happened, so there is good reason not to believe that life could be born spontaneously.

Actually, laboratory experiments test just one or two of the likely events leading to the origin of life at a time. This is because chemists want to understand the exact reaction process. There are no experiments that I have ever read that took as a goal to recreate the natural origin of life.

There are some obvious ethical questions that we are discussing even on the creation of synthetic life.

[serious] · Oct 21, 2015

cuja1 said:
Does anyone know, according to scientists, if life still forms today out of non-living material?

Not to our knowledge. The oxygen atmosphere and competition with existing life would almost certainly preclude any new life popping up on earth.

On other planets, it's probably happening somewhere in the universe.

Shemjaza · Oct 21, 2015

Grandpa4 said:
Who says scientists who deny the truth of God's word have any answers? God created everything--including life.

This gets said all the time, but, there are many, many Christian scientists who accept evolution and some form of abiogenesis, but think God is the one behind the laws of physics and random events that makes it all possible.

pat34lee · Oct 21, 2015

[serious] said:
Not to our knowledge. The oxygen atmosphere and competition with existing life would almost certainly preclude any new life popping up on earth.

On other planets, it's probably happening somewhere in the universe.

Problem:
Any conditions conducive to the formation of the components of life are deadly to life.

RickG · Oct 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
Problem:
Any conditions conducive to the formation of the components of life are deadly to life.

When life first appeared on earth it was anoxic, there was no oxygen.

Dr GS Hurd · Oct 21, 2015

pat34lee said:
Problem:
Any conditions conducive to the formation of the components of life are deadly to life.

Not in fact true. The bulk of life today is still anaerobic (oxygen free) bacteria in acidic environments. These environments are still common- your intestines are a good example.

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