Evolution is very obvious that is not true at all

caravelair · Jun 15, 2004

lucaspa said:
Fourth, evolution is happening now. I have a whole thread on Observed Speciation where we have seen and are seeing new species form from existing ones. Does someone have the link to that one handy?

yep, it's right here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t155626

i bookmarked it. thanks for that one!

lucaspa · Jun 15, 2004

Magnus Vile said:
We bad people...

However, in our defence, with one post and no responses to his own thread, it does look like a hit and run troll.

You know, he may have posted and then gone to bed. Not everyone lives online. Give it 48 hours and if he's not back, then we can conclude a hit and run.

lucaspa · Jun 15, 2004

USincognito said:
Ahem. I will point out that I tried to direct him to the CO Creation/Evolution forum.

My apologies. You're right. However, the atheists here, including you, are very good about not equating evolution with atheism and discussing evolution while trying to preserve the poster's theistic faith. I think we can safely let them stay here. That's a bit selfish on my part, since it's too much effort for me to monitor both forums.

lucaspa · Jun 15, 2004

caravelair said:
yep, it's right here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t155626

i bookmarked it. thanks for that one!

You're welcome. Thank you. Now I've put it in my FAQ file (which I should have done before).

ChristianRanger89 · Jun 26, 2004

What I am sayin do monkeys still have human babies or do somehow did it stop?

ChristianRanger89 · Jun 26, 2004

Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today. You do not see Apes evoling into humans or there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs and what is the meaning of life if we are made by chance everything you have worked for would not benfit you after you die. According to evolution death is it nothing else after that you know. So if we are all going to die one day why not end it now? I know what some may say for the fun of it or to be on top of the corprate ladder or somethin like that but what will it do for you? Are we more vauble than the animals that kill each other but has no sense of justice but we do. We have morals, know good from bad, we can create things, we have science, and so on. If the apes are actually the ones that made humans shouldn't they evoled to be smarter nowadays?

Freodin · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today. You do not see Apes evoling into humans or there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs and what is the meaning of life if we are made by chance everything you have worked for would not benfit you after you die. According to evolution death is it nothing else after that you know. So if we are all going to die one day why not end it now? I know what some may say for the fun of it or to be on top of the corprate ladder or somethin like that but what will it do for you? Are we more vauble than the animals that kill each other but has no sense of justice but we do. We have morals, know good from bad, we can create things, we have science, and so on. If the apes are actually the ones that made humans shouldn't they evoled to be smarter nowadays?

1. Read the answers. Someone mentioned an existing thread about "Evolution happening today". Go and read it.
Basically, Evolution IS happening today. But because Evolution is not what you claim it is (Human babies being born by monkeys, or similar nonsense), you don´t recognize it.

2. Apes don´t evolve into humans. In it impossible to state what something will evolve into - it is only possible to state what something DID evolve into.

Apes do not, and never did evolve into humans - but once there was a species existent on earth that did evolve into both modern human and modern apes.

3. There is indeed evidence for a huge meteor impact at roughly the same time the dinosaurs died off.

4. Evolution does not have anything to do with the meaning of life, what comes after life, morals, justice, nor does it give us a list of "ought to"s.

5. Use paragraphs!

Aduro Amnis · Jun 26, 2004

One, Humans and Apes shared a common ancestor yet our evolutionary path split, so thus Apes will most likely not give off an offspring that is in a transient form to a human, and I would also like you to note evolution does not have a goal, if an ape did give birth to a transient species it would be do to the enivorement it was in.

Two, yet there is evidence that Dinosaurs died out nearly 65 million years ago, we do not yet know the cause of this but it was either:
A.) A Meteor Strike, B.) Volcanic Activity, C.) A causing B, D.) Pangae Breaking Up.

Three, Evolution says nothing about theology, it is not a religion and most of the worlds religions accept it, including if not dominantly Christianity.

Four, I am not sure but I think Apes do have morals.
We know they have a barter economy, hierarchal government, capable of judging pay and work, and use of tools.

Logic · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today.

We can observe microevolution taking place inside of laboratories, macroevolution is a very slow process, if you want examples visit http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/.

ChristianRanger89 said:
You do not see Apes evoling into humans or there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs

I'm not sure how to respond. Let me guess, you think the flood wiped out the dinosaurs?

ChristianRanger89 said:
and what is the meaning of life if we are made by chance everything you have worked for would not benfit you after you die.

It's a pretty grim though, all the work, knowledge accumulation, friends, possessions, all for naught.

ChristianRanger89 said:
According to evolution death is it nothing else after that you know. So if we are all going to die one day why not end it now?

*Heads for medicine cabinet*

ChristianRanger89 said:
I know what some may say for the fun of it or to be on top of the corprate ladder or somethin like that but what will it do for you? Are we more vauble than the animals that kill each other but has no sense of justice but we do. We have morals, know good from bad, we can create things, we have science, and so on. If the apes are actually the ones that made humans shouldn't they evoled to be smarter nowadays?

The meaning of life has been debated for aeons, humans kill each other, many kinds of animals build many different types of tools and dwellings, the apes are smarter, look at all the neat **** we can make.

Freodin · Jun 26, 2004

I wonder if it will take another two weeks until the ranger comes back.

Stellar Vision · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today.

Evolution means that living things change over time. Now the main point here is that the individual animal doesn't change, but rather the descending generations of that animal do change. As a result, this occurs over a very long period of time. We can see this change in fossils.

USincognito · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
...there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs...

Laying aside your other misconceptions for a moment, I'd like to point out that this assertion is simply untrue. Take the link below:

http://geology.er.usgs.gov/eespteam/crater/craters.html

Under the heading "Chicxulub" there are links to some articles discussing that impact crator near the Yucatan penninsula. They're in laymans terms so you should be able to understand them. Chicxulub lies at the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundry (or K/T boundry). In Cretaceous and previous strata we find dinosaurs. In Tertiary and later we do not. While we can't be certain if the Chicxulub impact caused or contributed to the extinction of the dinosaurs, it certainly, as one of the articles points out, is a "smoking gun."

Mechanical Bliss · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today.

It is happening today.

You do not see Apes evoling into humans or ...

First of all, if you think other apes will suddenly bear humans, your conception of evolution is wrong, so you shouldn't expect to see that. Second, the evolution of our species took place over a longer period than our life span.

there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs

There is abundant evidence of such an event. Here's the Chicxulub crater in Mexico dated to 65 Ma:

http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/images/chicxulub.htm

We also see a globally correllated layer of iridium rich dust, which is anomalous because it is a rare element on earth that would be present in meteorites, and that layer corresponds to the time of the impact. We also see features such as shocked quartz, which are quartz crystals with dislocations in the crystal structure that result from impact. We also find glassy spherules spread across areas like Mexico and Texas that correllate to the impact date and geography. They result from hot, molten material that gets thrown up into the atmosphere and cools quickly, and we find them associated with meteorite impacts. That's only a sampling of the evidence supporting a meteorite impact at that time, so from now on, it would be disingenuous for you to say there is "no evidence" when there's plenty there.

and what is the meaning of life if we are made by chance everything you have worked for would not benfit you after you die. According to evolution death is it nothing else after that you know. So if we are all going to die one day why not end it now? I know what some may say for the fun of it or to be on top of the corprate ladder or somethin like that but what will it do for you? Are we more vauble than the animals that kill each other but has no sense of justice but we do. We have morals, know good from bad, we can create things, we have science, and so on. If the apes are actually the ones that made humans shouldn't they evoled to be smarter nowadays?

That's basically an argument from emotion that has several problems:

1. Evolution is not equal to atheism. The theory of evolution does not negate the existence of a deity, so whatever meaning you derive from your religion is essentially unaffected.

2. Evolution is not chance. Mutations occur randomly or are caused by environmental processes, but natural selection is not simply a matter of chance. Those populations of organisms with traits favorable to their environments are most likely to survive. Furthermore, chemistry itself is not chance either, as the properties of the different elements dictate which are more likely to combine or which would not.

3. The meaning of life is determined, essentially, by the individual. Its meaning is whatever you make it. If the only thing preventing you from being compulsively suicidal is the belief in a god, then the psychology you should be evaluating should be your own rather than ours.

4. Just because your conception of the implications of evolutionary biology being true make you feel uncomfortable with respect to things like the meaning of life, that does not in any way impact the actual veracity of evolutionary biology. Just because you want something to be true or false for emotional reasons does not mean it actually is true or false. So, arguing that you don't like the implications of evolutionary biology as you insist on understanding it, doesn't make it any less true nor is it an argument that will convince anyone but the gullible and/or those who don't care about factual evidence.

The Son of Him · Jun 26, 2004

Mechanical Bliss said:
3. The meaning of life is determined, essentially, by the individual. Its meaning is whatever you make it. If the only thing preventing you from being compulsively suicidal is the belief in a god, then the psychology you should be evaluating should be your own rather than ours.

QUOTE]

What is the meaning of life to you my friend ?
If you do not believe in my FATHER , what do you believe in ?
What will be your last wish for that loved one in their death bed ?
Will you want to see them again ?
They will apreciate a message of HOPE at that moment, and it will come out of your lips

Gracchus · Jun 26, 2004

May I submit an answer?

The Son of Him said:
What is the meaning of life to you my friend ?

Life is art for the sake of art. It is love given without thought of return. It is effort without hope of praise or appreciation.

If you do not believe in my FATHER , what do you believe in ?

I believe in my art.

What will be your last wish for that loved one in their death bed ?

It would be my wish that everyone could die at peace and without pain. But death is at least the end of pain.

Will you want to see them again ?

Love is for the living. Attachment gives rise to suffering. Seeking to prolong happiness beyond its time, we turn it to sorrow.

They will apreciate a message of HOPE at that moment, and it will como out of your lips

Each must find hope within himself. Neither I, nor you, can give it to another.

Why should we concern ourselves with death and what comes after, if we trust the Lord to deal with us justly and mercifully? Most Christians are a sorry lot, fearing death, which ends pain, and professing beliefs that are belied by their actions. They huddle fearfullly in their churches for empty reassurance and do not know how to walk with the Lord, even alone and without human comfort.

They worry, and pray, as if the Lord had not already considered their needs. If they truly knew the Lord, they would walk without fear.

aeroz19 · Jun 26, 2004

Jet Black said:
The technical name is cetacean, and they did:
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/cetacea/cetacean.html
evolution is not a theory that gives a meaning to life. It is simply a scientific theory that describes how things are, not whether those things are good or bad. However Evolution can answer why certain societies exist. This was demonstrated by the likes of Maynard Smith using game theory to demonstrate how altruism can be beneficial to ones genes.
you are confusing things here. Evolution has nothing to say on this matter. Humans are not a single replicator species, we no longer rely only on genes as many other animals do. so the questions as above are irrelevant to evolution.
It is. for example antibiotic resistance in bactreia, vancomycin reistance in bacteria, nylon consumption abilities in bacteria. The evolution of many animals in and around cities, and rather amusingly an experiment observing extinction in lizards went badly wrong and turned into an experiment on rapid evolution.
only there is.
well no, but that is because there is no process to do so.
aah yes, you are missing out all of the evolution in the middle, and we were never monkeys, we were (and still are) primates, and monkeys are a branch from our common ancestor with them. Just as an example of many intermediates, here are a number of homonid skulls, ranging from small braincases like chimps, to humans:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/compare.html

Why did you even bother?

lucaspa · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Ok I was tired when I was typing so let me make myself perfectly clear then if Evolution is real why isn't happening today. You do not see Apes evoling into humans or there is no evidence on a meteor or comet hitting the earth to wipe out dinosaurs

Others have responded well. I'll add just a bit here.

1. Apes would not evolve into humans now. After all, humans are already here and occupying that niche. Any small adaptations of apes to that niche are going to fail because humans are already there and can do better at being humans than any small modification of apes.

2. There is evidence of humans evolving and gaining new traits in new environments. http://www.biology-online.org/2/11_natural_selection.htm There is also evidence that the !Kung are on their way to becoming a separate species.

and what is the meaning of life if we are made by chance everything you have worked for would not benfit you after you die. According to evolution death is it nothing else after that you know.

Evolution says nothing about the meaning of life. You have to get that outside of science. Evolution is not a philosophy or belief system. It is simply a description of how the diversity of life on the planet arose.

Also, as Mechanical has pointed out, evolution is not chance.

We have morals, know good from bad, we can create things, we have science, and so on. If the apes are actually the ones that made humans shouldn't they evoled to be smarter nowadays?

Why? They can earn a perfectly good living being apes. They may be smarter than the common ancestor of apes and humans 7 million years ago. For instance, the orangutuan brain is larger than the recent fossils found near the split between the ape and human lineage.

However, the idea of lineages splitting is that one lineage has abilities the other does not. We have increased technology. Most apes can swing thru trees. We can't. So apes have abilities we lack and we have abilities they lack.

What you appear to be doing, CR, is making a value judgement that intelligence is absolutely good. It is not. It is an adaptation that is useful in particular environments; not a universal good. If our intelligence still leads to a nuclear war that makes us extinct, then the low intelligence of the cockroaches (resistant to radioactivity) would have been the better adaptation, wouldn't it?

BTW, apes have a lot of intelligence. Please read E Linden, Can animals think? Time 154: 57-60, Sept 6, 1999.

lucaspa · Jun 26, 2004

aeroz19 said:
Why did you even bother?

In the hopes that you and ChristianRanger would learn something.

Dale · Jun 26, 2004

*
Christian Ranger in original post:
<< Why isn't evolution happening now? >>

*
This is the "Where is our new species this week objection?" We get it from those who simply can't comprehend geologic time scales.
*
*

funyun · Jun 26, 2004

ChristianRanger89 said:
Evolution is so unrealistic lol I remember when I was in the 4th grade my teacher expected me to believe Dolphins had feet...

Dolphins as they appear today never had feet. Once again, we r witness to the twisted caricatures ignorance and misinformation create.

ChristianRanger89 said:
if this is true what is the sole purpose of life

There is no absolute purpose, tho one can find one's own purpose in life. Evolution has nothing to do with the idea of a purpose of life. That's philosophical. Evolution is biology.

ChristianRanger89 said:
and if this is all true is there any reason to go by rules like do not murder?

Same thing. This sounds a whole lot like the ol' "Well, if it's survival of the fittest, why don't we run around killing each other" argument. It's stupid. Evolutionary biology has nothing to do with societal structure or ethical/moral philosophy.

ChristianRanger89 said:
I mean we are all gonna die someday so why not end our worry of death and get over it?

I give u the great and wise words of Maynard James Keenan:

Lying to yourself again
Suicidal imbecile
Think about it, put it on the faultline
What'll it take to get it through to you precious
Come on to this, why do you wanna throw it away like this

Disconnect and self destruct one bullet at a time
What's your rush now, everyone will have his day to die

ChristianRanger89 said:
Why isn't evolution happening now?

Before answering this with a simple "It is", I'd like to ask if u have any knowledge whatsoever of what u mean when u say "evolution". That said, it is.

ChristianRanger89 said:
Because there was no such thing.

I assume u have proof? Or r u simply yet another self-proclaimed expert who knows all the inner workings of the universe without even taking a glance?

ChristianRanger89 said:
I mean can a tin can create itself?

Alcohol...I need LOTS of alcohol......

ChristianRanger89 said:
No everything has a maker such as us we come from our parents or is it possible babies come from monkeys?

I'm not sure where to start.

1) Would u like to provide some evidence that "everything has a maker?"

2) Monkeys do have babies. Baby monkeys. Crazy, huh?

Homo sapiens babies do not come from monkeys. If u knew even the slightest bit of what u r talking about, which u don't, u would know that humans dont magically appear from monkeys and shazam thats how evolution works.

Seriously- this is an absolutely sincere question- r u a troll?

Evolution is very obvious that is not true at all

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