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In saying that I'm nullifying what Jesus did for me you are saying I'm going to hell.
I am doing what God has led me to do. I'm following what HE has put on my heart to do.
I am not under the law. I do not depend upon keeping it (as if I could) so that I will be saved.
Keeping the law does not save me.
The shed blood of Jesus saves me.
I believe from Jesus own words says he ate the meal.Ah, that is the problem. You have confused the actual event of the Passover with the Passover meal. Exodus 12 is the event of the Jews putting the blood on the doorposts so their eldest sons would not die. Matthew 26 was a Passover meal that is done in remembrance of that deliverance. The remembrance is just that...a remembrance.
To say that Jesus did not eat is quite an interesting twist of the English language. Everything Jesus did was all part of a Passover meal. If I were to say "Godown sat down with the twelve. And as they did eat, he said," that would in no way imply that you did not eat. They ate...including Jesus. When the host serves His guests the host eats too. At a Passover meal, the host pours the wine and breaks the bread, but the host eats too. I'm pretty sure there would have been quite a commotion if the host did not eat too. Jesus did not serve communion He served a Passover meal.
....and if you don't love someone???? What keeps you from murdering them, stealing from them, lying, etc.? I emagine it is your love for God. I understand the law of love.
By not murdering, stealing, lie, etc, we are instinctively following the law of God given via Moses. Whether we want to call it law or not does not change the fact that it is a keeping of the law....just that it's written on our hearts instead of tablets of stone. Either way...it's law. Keeping it does not give us salvation though.
Anyway, I feel that in fairness to the OP we ought to get this back on track. The OP was asking for experiences on Jewish
observances. Mine have all been positive and have helped me understand more fully what Jesus did for me. Thank you Jesus!
You don't seem to see that you are preaching to the choir, judging others, and refusing Holy Spirit's gentile tug. What does Phil 4:8 say about Love? I kindly submit that your finger pointing/judging and refusal to be kind is the byproduct of possessing eyes that cannot see; ears that cannot hear.
Do you embrace Love or your own desire to be heard? If Love is your God, then Love.
I invite you to continue to participate in this thread--please do, in Love.
I can see that you are very knowledgeable in the subject you are discussing here. May I ask that you place kindness above your desire to be heard here, however--please place others first. *Faith comes by hearing and functions through Love--If you are correct in all you are saying, a kind word spoken in Love will bring Belief in Truth: believe the Word--this is what scripture says. Faith comes by hearing and functions through Love.
Love is the fuel that allows the faith/Belief engine to work.
*You are not immune to getting tripped up like this, just as I am not--so please feel free to drop me a friendly reminder that without Love I have nothing whenever you notice me pouncing on someone in anger. Like I said--I have a hard head!
I believe from Jesus own words says he ate the meal.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
....and if you don't love someone???? What keeps you from murdering them, stealing from them, lying, etc.? I emagine it is your love for God. I understand the law of love.
By not murdering, stealing, lie, etc, we are instinctively following the law of God given via Moses. Whether we want to call it law or not does not change the fact that it is a keeping of the law....just that it's written on our hearts instead of tablets of stone. Either way...it's law. Keeping it does not give us salvation though.
Anyway, I feel that in fairness to the OP we ought to get this back on track. The OP was asking for experiences on Jewish observances. Mine have all been positive and have helped me understand more fully what Jesus did for me.Thank you Jesus!
I agree with you on this. But Paul also is clear that it is the "Law written in our hearts" that teaches us what love is.If you are operating love you won't break the ten commandments.
I know this will probably sound rude, but I don't know any other way to say it. This last statement shows a serious ignorance of both the gospels and Catholic teaching.Jesus never participated in Passover once He gave communion. I don't recall that He ever participated in Passover. This may in fact be an assumption. At any rate, Communion is not Passover. Passover was a legalistic forerunner of Communion and is no longer necessary, except maybe for a Catholic.
Since you are obviously not aware, there are 4 glasses of wine that are drunk during the Passover meal. Two are before the meal itself, and two after. Each of these 4 cups have specific meanings. The 3rd cup, the one which Jesus took "after dinner" and said "this is my blood" is the "Cup of Redemption". The last cup, the one He said He would not drink yet is the "Cup of Completion".14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire F49 I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
The "dipping" that is taking place here is the dipping of Unleavened Bread into bitter herbs, then eating it as part of the Passover meal.Matthew 26 said:23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
So apparently the Feasts haven't been done away with complete, if the whole world will be celebrating at least one of them.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Zechariah 14 - Study This Chapter[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Behold, a day R378 is coming for the LORD when the R379 spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather R380 all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses R381 plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth and fight R382 against those nations, as when F136 He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand R383 on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split R384 in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake R385 in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then R386 the LORD, my God, will come, {and} all the holy ones with Him! F137 6 In that day there will be no R387 light; the luminaries F138 will dwindle. 7 For it will be a R388 unique day which is known R389 to the LORD, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening R390 time there will be light. 8 And in that day living R391 waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter. 9 And the LORD will be king R392 over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be {the only} one, R393 and His name {the only} one. 10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba R394 to Rimmon R395 south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem F139 will rise R396 and remain R397 on its site from Benjamin's R398 Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner R399 Gate, and from the Tower R400 of Hananel to the king's wine presses. 11 People F140 will live in it, and there will no R401 longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell R402 in security. 12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot R403 while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall F141 on them; and they will seize R404 one another's hand, and the hand of one will be F142 lifted against the hand of another. 14 Judah R405 also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth R406 of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague R407 will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps. 16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go R408 up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast R409 of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, R410 the LORD of hosts, there will be no R411 rain on them. 18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no {rain will fall} on them; it will be the plague R412 with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment F143 of Egypt, and the punishment F143 of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 20 In that day there will {be inscribed} on the bells of the horses, " R413 HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking R414 pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy R415 to the LORD of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite F144 R416 in the house of the LORD of hosts in that day. [/FONT]
Ok, I'll make it easy for you. I don't care what label you wear.What you stated way that it is OK to participate in the legalized feasts of the OT. I'll make this easy for you. I'm WOF! You're Catholic!
I've never encouraged anyone to become "entangled" in bondage. Quite frankly, I think it is obvious to all here that I'm walking in far more freedom in this area than you-- because I do not allow this to be an area that can put me in bondage. I'm not afraid to learn and grow, to further study the Word, to know the fullness of who He is. You are the one who is forbidding others to do something. I am the one who is saying "all things are lawful".You know about then and seemingly think it is OK to encourage others to become entangled in them.
What I find humorous is the fact that some people try to throw a smokescreen onto every theological disagreement by throwing out the "C" word (well, you're "Catholic") instead of actually looking to the scriptures to see what they say. I've given large quantities of scripture throughout this discussion. You have yet to rebut a single one of them. Is it safe to say that you agree with my take on all of them? Or do you ignore those passages of scripture?Is that humorous to you Sir?
I agree with you on this. But Paul also is clear that it is the "Law written in our hearts" that teaches us what love is.
I know this will probably sound rude, but I don't know any other way to say it. This last statement shows a serious ignorance of both the gospels and Catholic teaching.
Ignorance of the Gospels, in that they show Jesus repeatedly celebrating the Feasts of Israel, as He did every year of His life. Ignorance of the Gospels (and the OT) in that the sacrificing of the Passover Lamb was a small part of the Passover celebration, which actually kicked off a week long Feast (Unleavened Bread), in the middle of which was the Feast of First Fruits (the day on which Jesus rose from the dead).
You aparently aren't aware, even though it has been brought up here, that every Jewish man went to Jerusalem 3 times a year to celebrate the feasts. Jesus did not live in Jerusalem, He lived in Nazareth in the province of Galilee. However, almost all of His teaching found in the gospels occurred either in Jerusalem, on the way to Jerusalem, or on His way home from Jerusalem. Jesus and his disciples went up to Jerusalem each year and kept the Feasts. As He did so, He taught the disciples how each Feast illustrated His character/nature. Go back and read the gospels again. You will see this is so.
It is true the Jesus never celebrated Passover again after he instituted Communion, because He was crucified immediately following. It is also true that Jesus said He would not drink the final cup of Passover again until He does so "in His Father's Kingdom" (Matthew 26:29). If Jesus will be celebrating Passover "in His Father's Kingdom", well then it can hardly be a bad thing to do.
Actually, Jesus made it clear that He had looked forward to celebrating Passover with His disciples.Since you are obviously not aware, there are 4 glasses of wine that are drunk during the Passover meal. Two are before the meal itself, and two after. Each of these 4 cups have specific meanings. The 3rd cup, the one which Jesus took "after dinner" and said "this is my blood" is the "Cup of Redemption". The last cup, the one He said He would not drink yet is the "Cup of Completion".
Also, since you are obviously not aware but brought up this passageThe "dipping" that is taking place here is the dipping of Unleavened Bread into bitter herbs, then eating it as part of the Passover meal.
Again, since you apparently are unaware, Zechariah 14 is extremely explicit that the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths will be celebrated during the Millenium.So apparently the Feasts haven't been done away with complete, if the whole world will be celebrating at least one of them.
Ok, I'll make it easy for you. I don't care what label you wear.
Scripture says it is ok to either celebrate or not celebrate, as long as you understand that righteousness is obtained through Christ and not through the Law. Despite the fact that I have actually posted scripture that says this repeatedly, you keep ignoring it because it doesn't agree with your theology.
And, by the way, I know of many WoF ministers (Rhema grads, board members of ORU, etc. so you don't get much more WoF) who do celebrate Passover. I am frequently called by them to teach on these areas. Others have actually had me email them my notes so they could teach on them themselves. A number have come to the Passovers I have hosted, and the response was always the same-- that actually seeing it for themselves made the Word come alive in a way they had never known. I've never encouraged anyone to become "entangled" in bondage. Quite frankly, I think it is obvious to all here that I'm walking in far more freedom in this area than you-- because I do not allow this to be an area that can put me in bondage. I'm not afraid to learn and grow, to further study the Word, to know the fullness of who He is. You are the one who is forbidding others to do something. I am the one who is saying "all things are lawful".
What I find humorous is the fact that some people try to throw a smokescreen onto every theological disagreement by throwing out the "C" word (well, you're "Catholic") instead of actually looking to the scriptures to see what they say. I've given large quantities of scripture throughout this discussion. You have yet to rebut a single one of them. Is it safe to say that you agree with my take on all of them? Or do you ignore those passages of scripture?
I see no difference in the Passover meal, and "communion"..I understand them as the same meal. Jesus changed the meaning of Passover and new deliverance, when He took the cup, and brake the bread and said this is my body, this is my blood.You might be right or He might have been referring to communion in the only term they would understand when He showed them the new way to deal with what was the Passover. If this is so they would have realized that what we call communion is different than Passover.
...but as I said, I think you may have it right.
Thank you!
As I'm sure you have gathered from the thread, yes I have. I think at some point in time I have observed all of 7 of them (as well as Hanukkah and Purim). And each of them were wonderful learning experiences.I would really, really like to experience one of the Jewish holiday observances--I think it would be truly awesome--even to the level of being unforgettable or even lifechanging.
Have any of you ever experienced a Jewish observance? Please share!!
I see no difference in the Passover meal, and "communion"..I understand them as the same meal. Jesus changed the meaning of Passover and new deliverance, when He took the cup, and brake the bread and said this is my body, this is my blood.
There is no "communion" meal, per se', When we read the scriptures about what the communion is. It's communion with the Holy Spirit, communion with the body of Christ, and His blood. The Church calls the meal "communion", but it was still the Passover meal, when Jesus told us of the new significance for eating the Passover meal. Jesus was the new lamb of passover. Also have we noticed at Jesus passover meal, they didn't eat bitter herbs, that represents strife, or unleavened bread, that represented "haste"..but drank wine represtenting his blood, and leavened bread that represented his body? But Jesus still called it the Passover meal.
I agree with you on this. But Paul also is clear that it is the "Law written in our hearts" that teaches us what love is.
I know this will probably sound rude, but I don't know any other way to say it. This last statement shows a serious ignorance of both the gospels and Catholic teaching.
Ignorance of the Gospels, in that they show Jesus repeatedly celebrating the Feasts of Israel, as He did every year of His life. Ignorance of the Gospels (and the OT) in that the sacrificing of the Passover Lamb was a small part of the Passover celebration, which actually kicked off a week long Feast (Unleavened Bread), in the middle of which was the Feast of First Fruits (the day on which Jesus rose from the dead).
You aparently aren't aware, even though it has been brought up here, that every Jewish man went to Jerusalem 3 times a year to celebrate the feasts. Jesus did not live in Jerusalem, He lived in Nazareth in the province of Galilee. However, almost all of His teaching found in the gospels occurred either in Jerusalem, on the way to Jerusalem, or on His way home from Jerusalem. Jesus and his disciples went up to Jerusalem each year and kept the Feasts. As He did so, He taught the disciples how each Feast illustrated His character/nature. Go back and read the gospels again. You will see this is so.
It is true the Jesus never celebrated Passover again after he instituted Communion, because He was crucified immediately following. It is also true that Jesus said He would not drink the final cup of Passover again until He does so "in His Father's Kingdom" (Matthew 26:29). If Jesus will be celebrating Passover "in His Father's Kingdom", well then it can hardly be a bad thing to do.
Actually, Jesus made it clear that He had looked forward to celebrating Passover with His disciples.Since you are obviously not aware, there are 4 glasses of wine that are drunk during the Passover meal. Two are before the meal itself, and two after. Each of these 4 cups have specific meanings. The 3rd cup, the one which Jesus took "after dinner" and said "this is my blood" is the "Cup of Redemption". The last cup, the one He said He would not drink yet is the "Cup of Completion".
Also, since you are obviously not aware but brought up this passageThe "dipping" that is taking place here is the dipping of Unleavened Bread into bitter herbs, then eating it as part of the Passover meal.
Again, since you apparently are unaware, Zechariah 14 is extremely explicit that the Feast of Tabernacles/Booths will be celebrated during the Millenium.So apparently the Feasts haven't been done away with complete, if the whole world will be celebrating at least one of them.
Ok, I'll make it easy for you. I don't care what label you wear.
Scripture says it is ok to either celebrate or not celebrate, as long as you understand that righteousness is obtained through Christ and not through the Law. Despite the fact that I have actually posted scripture that says this repeatedly, you keep ignoring it because it doesn't agree with your theology.
And, by the way, I know of many WoF ministers (Rhema grads, board members of ORU, etc. so you don't get much more WoF) who do celebrate Passover. I am frequently called by them to teach on these areas. Others have actually had me email them my notes so they could teach on them themselves. A number have come to the Passovers I have hosted, and the response was always the same-- that actually seeing it for themselves made the Word come alive in a way they had never known. I've never encouraged anyone to become "entangled" in bondage. Quite frankly, I think it is obvious to all here that I'm walking in far more freedom in this area than you-- because I do not allow this to be an area that can put me in bondage. I'm not afraid to learn and grow, to further study the Word, to know the fullness of who He is. You are the one who is forbidding others to do something. I am the one who is saying "all things are lawful".
What I find humorous is the fact that some people try to throw a smokescreen onto every theological disagreement by throwing out the "C" word (well, you're "Catholic") instead of actually looking to the scriptures to see what they say. I've given large quantities of scripture throughout this discussion. You have yet to rebut a single one of them. Is it safe to say that you agree with my take on all of them? Or do you ignore those passages of scripture?
I believe from Jesus own words says he ate the meal.
Luk 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
But when we take the Passover now, when He took the cup and bread and said this is my body, this is my blood, was to signify a new meaning for the Passover meal, a new deliverance. I know we call it communion, but isn't it another deliverance is why we would eat it as the Passover meal? It's not really a "communion" meal we eat, but we call it communion because of the fellowship with the Holy Spirit. 1Cr 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? But it was still the Passover meal. Jesus was the new lamb of passover. But Christians do it now, not to remember what was past, but what the passover signifies now.
That is what the Bible says if youpractice the law. Like I saiud take it up with God.
God never led you to participat in the law of the OT.
You don't seem to get it. When youkeep the feats youare exercising the law and by so doing you have put yourself under the law.
Keeping the law will condemn you.
We agree on this.
I have to say this statement really shocks me... you are the one who tried to convince us that we were preaching to the choir, that you were also WoF and yet you call someone who disagrees with you "swine" ... not really very nice at all... God bless you... Mike.
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