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Ah, insults, that's all you got? Shows you character.The Catholic church deserves better representation. . .
Ah, insults, that's all you got? Shows you character.
Poor recovery. You should move on.Well, I have those of yours in post #19, but I was saving them for another day.
Catholic church is still limpin' a bit.
Poor recovery.
You should move on.
Or maybe get the Greek lexicon you apparently got for Christmas and
tell us what the Greek is for "demon faith"
Exodus 4: 8 Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9 But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you,Or so your narrative goes. Now you need to support your bare assertion. And I really don't care even if you find it necessary, lacking Scriptural support, to do it from a merely logical point of view. We can do that.
Not sure how “faith justifies”The "faith" to worship false gods, or to seek themselves, or even the mundane act of trusting the chair won't collapse under me when I sit on it, isn't what the New Testament talks about when it speaks of faith.
Faith justifies. How can faith in Odin or faith in human reason justify? It can't. So the New Testament isn't talking about some generic kind of faith. But the faith which is given as as the pure gift of God through the Gospel, that faith is faith that trusts Christ, that trusts God's promises, that trusts God's grace.
That faith comes only as the gift of God. That faith makes us new people.
-CryptoLutheran
Exodus 4: 8 Then the Lord said, “If they do not believe you or pay attention to the first sign, they may believe the second. 9 But if they do not believe these two signs or listen to you,
Numbers 14:11 The Lord said to Moses, “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the signs I have performed among them?
Here you find the Lord using the words “if”, “may”, “refuse” and “how long” suggesting their “faith/trust/belief is not controlled or up to God’s gift of a saving faith for some, but their faith in God/Moses was up to the people.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
The idea is it is whoever believes and not wherever was made to believe.
How do these show that faith is not a gift of God?John 1: 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.
John 4:41 And because of his words many more became believers.
John 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
John 20:31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Faith comes by hearing, so if they heard and listen to John or Jesus, they would believe. Not listening is also not believing.
Regardless of whether saved or not saved, we each will fulfill precisely that for which God individually created each of us; just as the Devil steps precisely where God had intended, to accomplish that for which God made him.John 3:15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
The controlling factor is believing (having faith in), which man controls.
John 6:29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Can we be incapable of doing God’s work for us to do?
Notice Thomas was convinced, without even touching the Lord.John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;
Here we have “faith/belief” but it is not a “saving faith”.
John 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.
Believing is a free will choice.
Not sure how “faith justifies”
God Justifies us.
Faith can be counted for righteousness, but justification is different.
John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;
Here we have “faith/belief” but it is not a “saving faith”.
What about the two greatest comments?Yes, I thought that also. I have heard of faith, assent, knowledge. But "affection"??? I am not so sure.
Rather they should say "God did this".Why is faith counted as righteousness? Whose righteousness? Our righteousness? Are we righteous because we believe the right things? That would just be more works.
We are justified through faith because through faith God gives us His righteousness, in this way faith justifies. For it is the gift of God.
If anyone says, "I did this" then they are trusting in themselves. That is death.
-CryptoLutheran
I agree to a point. One of the ways, I think, that man can be said to be made in the image of God is in his innate spiritual nature, which is, as Ephesians 2 and other passages point out, in the natural man, dead. (Yet there remains conscience, intellect and senses, and intuition, "wherefore he is without excuse".Humans are not capable of knowing how they are being saved. God transcends human rationality.
Faith is our “work” and really the only thing we bring to the relationship, so we can talk about justification and righteousness being the outcome of our faith through God’s Love and mercy.Why is faith counted as righteousness? Whose righteousness? Our righteousness? Are we righteous because we believe the right things? That would just be more works.
I do not see God imputing His righteousness to us, but God forgives us and we experience Loving discipline through being crucified with Christ. Deity now dwells with in us, so we have that righteousness within us allowing us to be righteous by not squelching the Spirit.We are justified through faith because through faith God gives us His righteousness, in this way faith justifies. For it is the gift of God.
Amy “good” we “do”, is the result of us allowing the indwelling Holy Spirit to work through us.If anyone says, "I did this" then they are trusting in themselves. That is death.
-CryptoLutheran
Faith is our “work” and really the only thing we bring to the relationship, so we can talk about justification and righteousness being the outcome of our faith through God’s Love and mercy.
Christians with Godly type Love and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit can be righteous for a day and longer. This is directly the result of allowing the Spirit and God’s Love to control us and nothing we could do on our own.
I do not see God imputing His righteousness to us,
Faith is our “work” and really the only thing we bring to the relationship, so we can talk about justification and righteousness being the outcome of our faith through God’s Love and mercy.
Christians with Godly type Love and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit can be righteous for a day and longer. This is directly the result of allowing the Spirit and God’s Love to control us and nothing we could do on our own.
I do not see God imputing His righteousness to us, but God forgives us and we experience Loving discipline through being crucified with Christ. Deity now dwells with in us, so we have that righteousness within us allowing us to be righteous by not squelching the Spirit.
Amy “good” we “do”, is the result of us allowing the indwelling Holy Spirit to work through us.
A lot of Protestants believe in "Lordship Salvation". Which was popularized by John MacArthur. After having debated justification by grace alone through faith alone with a Catholic, I realized how much the tenants of Lordship Salvation sound like Catholicism. Ironically MacArthur strongly denounces Catholicism as being works based salvation.I'll be honest, if one doesn't believe in justification by grace alone through faith alone then they are denying and negating the whole point of the Reformation. The Reformation stands or falls on this singular doctrine of justification, and if the Reformation was wrong then nobody has any business being "Protestant", because then Rome is correct in saying that Protestants are in open rebellion against Christ and His Church.
If all that remains is open schism for the sake of schism, then it is sin pure and simple.
-CryptoLutheran
A lot of Protestants believe in "Lordship Salvation". Which was popularized by John MacArthur. After having debated justification by grace alone through faith alone with a Catholic, I realized how much the tenants of Lordship Salvation sound like Catholicism. Ironically MacArthur strongly denounces Catholicism as being works based salvation.
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