Enduring Persecution vs daily dying to self

(Not necessarily two different things - one certainly includes the other. But for the sake of distinction)

1 Cor 15 - Paul says that without hope of the future resurrection all the suffering of persecution - and enduring hardship for Christ - is without any purpose.

Paul said in Roman's 8 believers are like sheep led to the slaughtered every day. Glad we agree on that .

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And in Romans 8:4-9 Paul says the lost "do not and indeed can not submit to the Law of God" --- by contrast to the saved in Romans 8:4-9

jerry kelso said:

bobryan,

1. I am happy you understand that it was the hope of a physical resurrection and that is why he endured his sufferings.
Many believe it was about Paul dying to sin or crucifying the flesh which it really isn't.

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1 Cor 9:27 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" - is about Paul dying to self. If you are wanting to have that discussion - pick 1 Cor 9.

so ALSO -- 2 Corinthians 4:10: Always bearing about in our bodies the dying of the Lord Jesus that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. --

Same point as in 1 Cor 9.

jerry kelso said:

Dying daily meant putting their life on the line for the cause of Christ

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In 1 Cor 15 yes - but in 1 Cor 9 and 2Cor 4 -- no.

BobRyan said: ↑
1 Cor 9:27 "I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified" - is about Paul dying to self. If you are wanting to have that discussion - pick 1 Cor 9.

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Greg J. said:

In this passage Paul is making the point that he chooses to suffer for the purpose of bringing the gospel to others in such a way as they will receive it.

Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. (1 Corinthians 9:19, 1984 NIV)

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That is true - and in 1 Cor 9:27 it is a dying to self.

Greg J. said:

I believe the phrase "dying to self" that is typically used is a reference to:

Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. (Luke 9:23-24, 1984 NIV)


—denying oneself to obey the Lord, even when it is something we do not want to do, perhaps because it is painful. It can even feel like dying when the person is also going through a spiritually dark time.

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Very true - thanks for that.