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Once again her comments have an emphasis on the sabbath that is probably not fully warranted by the teaching of Christ in the scripture.
What about the term:This doesn't answer my question. If you can speak about the "terms" of the NC, you should be able to point out where they are located. For instance, the OC terms can be pointed out without issue so one can know exactly what was required. The same should be true about the NC. Just as God spelled out the OC terms, I would like to think that God spelled out the NC terms.
Would you be able to point out where the terms of the NC are listed?
Have you read about the gospel that saint Paul preached; the one he heard from the Lord? That is the new covenant and both the Lord (in the gospels) and saint Paul in his letters describes the terms. If you read Ephesians or Romans you will get a fair amount of the new covenant description, but just as the old covenant took the five books attributed to Moses to expresss so too the new covenant takes the four gospels to express and the letters of the saints in the new testament help to flesh out some of the details. I commend them all to you as precious jewels of truth that can shed light in one's heart and soul.
You have a new testament do you not, if you cannot find the terms of the new covenant in its pages then you will not find it in anything I can type. (compare to Luke 16:31)This doesn't answer my question. If you can speak about the "terms" of the NC, you should be able to point out where they are located. For instance, the OC terms can be pointed out without issue so one can know exactly what was required. The same should be true about the NC. Just as God spelled out the OC terms, I would like to think that God spelled out the NC terms.
Yes.Probably?
Do you think that Ellen White's comments have an emphasis on the sabbath that is fully warranted by the teaching of Christ in Matthew 12:1-14? If you think so then say so, if not then say so.Are you unsure?
Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.Ellen White continues her narrative with an occasional imaginary touch here and there to embellish the - rather more simple and more credible - biblical narrative from Matthew 12:1-14.
Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshipper of God.
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.Ellen White makes a couple of assertions that are interesting. First she says "The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law" and then she says of Jesus that he is "One above all question and above all law".
And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other. Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Matthew 12:1-14
It is obvious to every christian that what Jesus did and said was always "in accord with" the law because he was Missiah come to fulfil the law and so to redeem his people from the power of sin and death. Now, we know that the strength of death is in the law and that by works of the law shall no flesh be justified and one hopes that Ellen White also knew and taught these things. But when she asserts that Jesus is "One above all question and above all law" one must pause for a while and consider if she is speaking of Jesus as God - because God is indeed above all laws - or if she was still speaking of Jesus as Messiah. If she were thinking of the latter then she would be misunderstanding the meaning of messiah and the mission of Christ.
Once again her comments have an emphasis on the sabbath that is probably not fully warranted by the teaching of Christ in the scripture.
You have a new testament do you not, if you cannot find the terms of the new covenant in its pages then you will not find it in anything I can type. (compare to Luke 16:31)
Yes. Do you think that Ellen White's comments have an emphasis on the sabbath that is fully warranted by the teaching of Christ in Matthew 12:1-14? If you think so then say so, if not then say so.
Is Jesus God and was he God while he spoke to the people in Judea, Samaria, and the Galilee?I don't think I'll ever understand why it's so hard for anyone to point out the terms of the new covenant. Saying it's "in the New Testament" isn't saying much. From my reading of the NT, we don't see much of a record of God speaking to the people, until Revelation at least.
Yes, that is reasonable but what is a little disturbing is that you evidently don't recognise God speaking to the people in the gospels.If God spoke the terms of the OC, wouldn't it be logical to believe He spoke the terms of the NC as well, thus avoiding any possible confusion?
If what you believe is immaterial then why do you think my certainty is important?This doesn't answer my question. You said "probably". I was simply asking if you were unsure. What I believe is immaterial.
Is Jesus God and was he God while he spoke to the people in Judea, Samaria, and the Galilee?
Yes, that is reasonable but what is a little disturbing is that you evidently don't recognise God speaking to the people in the gospels.
If what you believe is immaterial then why do you think my certainty is important?
If by "genuine understanding" you mean seeking to understand what Jesus said and did in the gospel then Amen! What is important is to understand and to live the gospel that our Lord taught.What I believe is immaterial because it holds not bearing on the question at hand. That's all I'm saying. Your certainty (or lack thereof) is very important if genuine understanding is being sought.
If you're simply expressing your opinion about her writings, then that's another thing altogether.
Okay, thanks for the clarification.Forgive me for the confusion. I wasn't thinking about the Gospels when I said "NT".
Again, that was a large mistake on my part.
If by "genuine understanding" you mean seeking to understand what Jesus said and did in the gospel then Amen! What is important is to understand and to live the gospel that our Lord taught.
If by "genuine understanding" you mean understanding Ellen White's chapter on "The Sabbath" then okay, I am happy to read your insights on the chapter and the analysis I have written on the paragraphs that I have thus far quoted in this thread.
If by "genuine understanding" you mean accepting Ellen White's teaching in the chapter on "The Sabbath" then you have a case to make before that could happen.
Okay, thanks for the clarification.
By the way, why weren't you thinking of the gospels when you said "NT"?
That's interesting; I mean that the first thing to come to mind is Romans onward when you think of the NT; I am sure that you are not alone in that perspective. Catholics probably think of the four gospels first and foremost when the NT is mentioned because in them many of our Lord's words are preserved. The letters and Revelation are, for Catholics, more a matter of occasional writing to solve church problems or to give instruction to bishops and the faithful about doctrine and living the christian faith in the world. I guess that we (Catholics) think in this way because our liturgy always includes a reading from one of the gospels as the high point of the liturgy of the word.Typically because the gospels aren't the first thing most individuals appeal to when they talk about the NT. It's usually from Romans on. I made an assumption which I shouldn't have made.
That's interesting; I mean that the first thing to come to mind is Romans onward when you think of the NT; I am sure that you are not alone in that perspective. Catholics probably think of the four gospels first and foremost when the NT is mentioned because in them many of our Lord's words are preserved. The letters and Revelation are, for Catholics, more a matter of occasional writing to solve church problems or to give instruction to bishops and the faithful about doctrine and living the christian faith in the world. I guess that we (Catholics) think in this way because our liturgy always includes a reading from one of the gospels as the high point of the liturgy of the word.
Wouldn't want to do thatWhich box does God live in? I would like to visit that box. IOW God can not be completely fathomed by the humand mind. Trying to do so brings God down to our level.
bugkiller
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