Ellen White on the Sabbath

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

Lysimachus said:
You better quit praying too then.
...

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Lysimachus · Oct 25, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

The same then goes for Sunday, as Sunday is a "holyday". Sunday was called a "Festival" in both Constantine's day, and Justinian's Day. I have read their Codes. I have also read the Catechism that mentions Sunday as a Festival.

The Catholic Church then violates Colossians 2:16, as Benedict XVI has emphatically stated that we disconnect ourselves from God when we do not honor Sunday.

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

Lysimachus said:
MoreCoffee said:

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. These are shadows of things to come; the reality belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Click to expand...

The same then goes for Sunday, as Sunday is a "holyday".
...

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. (Ephesians 2:14-16)

And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross; despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. (Colossians 2:13-15)

bugkiller · Oct 25, 2012

Lysimachus said:
How does that negate the fact that the Ten Commandments were written by the Finger of God, PRIOR to Moses writing them down in a book, as a copy?

Beats me. What does the Scripture say?

How was Moses able to read them off to the Israelites? Walk between the crowd of Israelites, then walk into the Most Holy Place, and then read them out loud to the congregation?

Try to get the picture bugkiller. You're using arguments that do not even make sense.

Must be because I do not agree with you.

The expression "whole law" also was attributed to the Ten Commandments:

"But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the WHOLE LAW, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So SPEAK YE, and SO DO, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." (James 2:9-12)

I didn't say it! GOD said it.

God said what?

In Dueteronomy 5, The expression "ALL the commandments" are being used to mean "ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS". (See Deut. 5:29, 31) (see context of which law is being given).

Which commandments do you think it refers to?

The expression , "blotting OUT the handwriting of ordinances"....in Colossians 2:16, is an expression to represent the erasing of INK in the Greek.

"Blotting out" has to do with INK.

Guess what?

After you erase the ink, that is related to "ORDINANCES", the Ten Commandments STILL remain in TACT!

STILL REMAIN!

It is my conviction to tell the world that the Sabbath is still binding.

So it is my obligation to defend the truth which came by Jesus Christ and not Moses. Ordinances have nothing to do with ink or stone carvings. They are ordinances whither written or not. Now what ordinances did you say were against us? ceremonies?

bugkiller

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

So Lysimachus, do you really think that "the whole law" means "the ten commandments"?

Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? But you dishonoured the poor person. Are not the rich oppressing you? And do they themselves not haul you off to court? Is it not they who blaspheme the noble name that was invoked over you? However, if you fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbour as yourself, you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. For he who said, You shall not commit adultery, also said, You shall not kill. Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as people who will be judged by the law of freedom. For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:5-13)

I think bugkiller is right when he asks "God said what?" because God sure didn't say that the ten commandments is the whole law.

Lysimachus, you ought to read verses in context and stop pretending that they say what you wish they said rather than what they really say.

Elder 111 · Oct 25, 2012

bugkiller said:
Man's and for physical rest. Physical rest is not God's rest obviously because Jesus offered them something else besides the sabbath rest in Mat 11:28-30.

bugkiller

So there is a conflict between what Jesus offered and what God hallowed? Or what God hallowed and what Jesus referred to are two different things?
Here is the rest referred to with the Sabbath. ä-nä-pau-'ō1) to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
2) to give rest, refresh, to give one's self rest, take rest
3) to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation
And the rest Jesus offered, ä-nä'-pau-sēs
1) intermission, cessation of any motion, business or labour
2) rest, recreation.
Think there are the same?
.

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and senditunto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.(Revelation 1:10-11)

On the Lords day - The word rendered here as "Lords" (κυριακῇ kuriakē), occurs only in this place and in 1Cor 11:20, where it is applied to the Lords supper. It properly means "pertaining to the Lord"; and, so far as this word is concerned, it might mean a day "pertaining to the Lord," in any sense, or for any reason; either because he claimed it as his own, and had set it apart for his own service, or because it was designed to commemorate some important event pertaining to him, or because it was observed in honor of him. It is clear:

(1) That this refers to some day which was distinguished from all other days of the week, and which would be sufficiently designated by the use of this term.
(2) that it was a day which was for some reason regarded as especially a day of the Lord, or especially devoted to him.
(3) it would further appear that this was a day particularly devoted to the Lord Jesus; for:

(a) that is the natural meaning of the word "Lord" as used in the New Testament (compare the notes on Acts 1:24); and
(b) if the Jewish Sabbath were intended to be designated, the word "Sabbath" would have been used.

The term was used generally by the early Christians to denote the first day of the week. It occurs twice in the Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians (about 101 a.d.), who calls the Lords day "the queen and prince of all days." Chrysostom (on Ps. 119) says, "It was called the Lords day because the Lord rose from the dead on that day." Later fathers make a marked distinction between the "Sabbath" and the "Lords day"; meaning by the former the Jewish "Sabbath," or the seventh day of the week, and by the latter the first day of the week, kept holy by Christians. So Theodoret (Fab. Haeret. ii. 1), speaking of the Ebionites, says, "They keep the Sabbath according to the Jewish law, and sanctify the Lords day in like manner as we do" (Prof. Stuart). The strong probability is, that the name was given to this day in honor of the Lord Jesus, and because he rose on that day from the dead. No one can doubt that it was an appellation given to the first day of the week; and the passage, therefore, proves:

(1) that that day was thus early distinguished in some special manner, so that the mere mention of it would be sufficient to identify it in the minds of those to whom the apostle wrote;
(2) that it was in some sense regarded as devoted to the Lord Jesus, or was designed in some way to commemorate what he had done; and,
(3) that if this book were written by the apostle John, the observance of that day has the apostolic sanction. He had manifestly, in accordance with a prevailing custom, set apart this day in honor of the Lord Jesus. Though alone, he was engaged on that day in acts of devotion. Though far away from the sanctuary, he enjoyed what all Christians hope to enjoy on such a day of rest, and what not a few do in fact enjoy in its observance. We may remark, in view of this statement:

(a) that when away from the sanctuary, and deprived of its privileges, we should nevertheless not fail to observe the Christian Sabbath. If on a bed of sickness, if in a land of strangers, if on the deep, if in a foreign clime, if on a lonely island, as John was, where we have none of the advantages of public worship, we should yet honor the Sabbath. We should worship God alone, if we have none to unite with us; we should show to those around us, if we are with strangers, by our dress and our conversation, by a serious and devent manner, by abstinence from labor, and by a resting from travel, that we devoutly regard this day as set apart for God.

(b) We may expect, in such circumstances, and with such a devout observance of the day, that God will meet with us and bless us. It was on a lonely island, far away from the sanctuary and from the society of Christian friends, that the Saviour met "the beloved disciple," and we may trust it will be so with us. For on such a desert island, in a lonely forest, on the deep, or amid strangers in a foreign land, he can as easily meet us as in the sanctuary where we have been accustomed to worship, and when surrounded by all the privileges of a Christian land. No man, at home or abroad, among friends or strangers, enjoying the privileges of the sanctuary, or deprived of those privileges, ever kept the Christian Sabbath in a devout manner without profit to his own soul; and, when deprived of the privileges of public worship, the visitations of the Saviour to the soul may be more than a compensation for all our privations. Who would not be willing to be banished to a lonely island like Patmos, if he might enjoy such a glorious vision of the Redeemer as John was favored with there?

(Albert Barnes)

Lysimachus · Oct 25, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh, abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person in place of the two, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it. (Ephesians 2:14-16)

And even when you were dead (in) transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he brought you to life along with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions; obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross; despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. (Colossians 2:13-15)

Is it too hard to address the second portion of my objection?

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

Lysimachus said:
Is it too hard to address the second portion of my objection?

No. It was not relevant since this thread is about Ellen White and the7th day Sabbath.

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law - All except the single point referred to. The apostle does not say that this in fact ever did occur, but he says that if it should, and yet a man should have failed in only one particular, he must be judged to be guilty. The case supposed seems to be that of one who claimed that he had kept the whole law. The apostle says that even if this should be admitted for the time to be true in all other respects, yet, if he had failed in any one particular - in showing respect to persons, or in anything else - he could not but be held to be a transgressor, The design of this is to show the importance of yielding universal obedience, and to impress upon the mind a sense of the enormity of sin from the fact that the violation of any one precept is in fact an offence against the whole law of God. The whole law here means all the law of God; all that he has required; all that he has given to regulate us in our lives. (Albert Barnes)

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

weariedsoul, we all have bibles at home, so why are you quoting passages without making any comment about the and when the passages are not particularly relevant to this thread?

Dale · Oct 25, 2012

weariedsoul said:
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

It's interesting that sabbath-breaking is not among the vile things that Paul condemns, along with idolatry, witchcraft, etc.

I'm surprised that hasn't come up before in this debate.

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Dale · Oct 25, 2012

Lysimachus,

You have yet to learn Point One about parliamentary debate.

Length <> Effectiveness

Length is not equal to Effectiveness.

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MoreCoffee · Oct 25, 2012

Dale said:
It's interesting that sabbath-breaking is not among the vile things that Paul condemns, along with idolatry, witchcraft, etc.

I'm surprised that hasn't come up before in this debate.

That'd be because 7th day breaking was not significant to non-Jewish Christians. I do not quite understand why Seventh Day Adventists (and any other non-Jewish 7th day observers) make such a fuss about something that was an obligation for Israel but not for anybody else.

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
weariedsoul, we all have bibles at home, so why are you quoting passages without making any comment about the and when the passages are not particularly relevant to this thread?

Because the scriptures say it all, i dont need to add to it. No man needs a teacher. I just post what needs to be seen. And sometimes i worship God by posting scripture, i post truth and we must worship in spirit and truth. Its all good.

weariedsoul · Oct 25, 2012

Dale said:
It's interesting that sabbath-breaking is not among the vile things that Paul condemns, along with idolatry, witchcraft, etc.

I'm surprised that hasn't come up before in this debate.

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Yes it seemed relevant to the thread.

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