Elah and Allah

Simonline said:

If you want a good, nay, excellent education on Islam and the prophet Mohammad then I heartily recommend the works of such men as...

...Dr. Mark A. Gabriel Dr. Mark Gabriel...

...Joel Richardson of 'Joel's Trumpet' Joels Trumpet...

...and former Palestine Liberation Organization terrorist Walid Shoebat. WalidShoebat.com.


Simonline.

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I've read Mark Gabriel's books and some of the works of Shoebat, but not Richardson's.

Nick T said:

Both Jews and Muslims reject the NT because they refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, that God can ever have a son and the whole trinity concept.
I'm not really sure why it is more "understandable" for the jews to reject Christ... I would have thought that those who knew scripture best would have welcomed him with open arms! But in any case it makes no differance; both Jews and Muslims are essentially on the same page.

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Muslims do not reject the entire NT. They only reject what contradicts the Qur'an.

Many Muslims reject the Christ as "Son of God" because they have a misguided idea that Christians believe sex was involved with the conception of Jesus and nothing could be further from the truth. They misunderstand because the author of the Qur'an did not understand.

Jews reject the Christ because they do not believe He was the Christ -- they cite some of the prophecies of the Messiah that they believe Jesus did not fulfill.

Jews and Muslims are far from being on the same page.

Muslims believe Jesus was the Messiah, that He performed miracles, that He was born of a virgin and that someday He will return. Jews believe none of this.

Many of the Jews I know will not even discuss their Scriptures with Muslims because Muslims claim the Jews have changed their Scriptures.

For instance, Muslims tell me Jews deleted Ishmael's name from Genesis 22 and replaced it with Isaac's name.

Genesis 22:

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

GeorgeTwo said:

I've read Mark Gabriel's books and some of the works of Shoebat, but not Richardson's.

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Richardson's books and DVD's are dynamite. They are serious studies rather than populist pulp for the masses and they are truly worth reading/watching.

Simonline.

GeorgeTwo said:

Muslims do not reject the entire NT. They only reject what contradicts the Qur'an.

Many Muslims reject the Christ as "Son of God" because they have a misguided idea that Christians believe sex was involved with the conception of Jesus and nothing could be further from the truth. They misunderstand because the author of the Qur'an did not understand.

Jews reject the Christ because they do not believe He was the Christ -- they cite some of the prophecies of the Messiah that they believe Jesus did not fulfill.

Jews and Muslims are far from being on the same page.

Muslims believe Jesus was the Messiah, that He performed miracles, that He was born of a virgin and that someday He will return. Jews believe none of this.

Many of the Jews I know will not even discuss their Scriptures with Muslims because Muslims claim the Jews have changed their Scriptures.

For instance, Muslims tell me Jews deleted Ishmael's name from Genesis 22 and replaced it with Isaac's name.

Genesis 22:

2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”

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The problem is that Mohammed and the Qur'an have already testified that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures are authentic so if what modern day Muslims say is true (i.e. that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures have been altered) then that means that both Mohammed and the Qur'an, in bearing witness to the authenticity of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, were either mistaken or lying since the Dead Sea Scrolls that were discovered in 1947 have confirmed that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures that we have today are 99.999% identical to the Judeo-Christian Scriptures that were around in Mohammad's day let alone Jesus' day?! This means that Mohammad and the Qur'an are thus disqualified as having come from God?!

Simonline.

Simonline said:

The problem is that Mohammed and the Qur'an have already testified that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures are authentic so if what modern day Muslims say is true (i.e. that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures have been altered) then that means that both Mohammed and the Qur'an, in bearing witness to the authenticity of the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, were either mistaken or lying since the Dead Sea Scrolls that were discovered in 1947 have confirmed that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures that we have today are 99.999% identical to the Judeo-Christian Scriptures that were around in Mohammad's day let alone Jesus' day?! This means that Mohammad and the Qur'an are thus disqualified as having come from God?!

Simonline.

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I agree with you. The Qur'an says in many, many verses that the Qur'an confirms the past revelations and since our manuscripts predate the Qur'an by several hundred years, this means that the Qur'an is confirming what we have today.

Londongal said:

many xtians seem to think that Allah is not the same as the xtian God.

peoples thoughts?

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I think it's as personal as the individual believer. On this very forum I've encountered Muslims who are purely antagonistic, and mindlessly so, and also those w/ a pure heart and a beautiful spirit. I wouldn't suggest both have the same god. I expect the same holds in Christianity

Nick T said:

Both Jews and Muslims reject the NT because they refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God, that God can ever have a son and the whole trinity concept.

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The Judeo-Christian Scriptures declare otherwise. The mascent Church was exclusively Nazarenic Jewish and only later became 'top heavy' with Gentile Christians?! Some Jews still don't yet accept that YHWH has incarnated as the human creature, Jesus of Nazareth...but they will, or die.

The Jews and the Muslims (unlike many Christians) are absolutely right to believe that God is incapable of producing Divine offspring. The capacity to 'reproduce after their own kind' is given by the Creator exclusively to finite creatures, a capacity that He Himself does not have because, unlike His finite creatures, He does not need it.

The Second Person of the Trinity is Himself God, NOT 'God's Son'. Only as the incarnate human creature, Jesus of Nazareth, does the second Person of the Trinity exist as 'the Son of God' (i.e. the human incarnation of God Himself - Emmanuel - 'God [NOT 'God's Son'] with us'.

As for the concept of Trinity, there are many professed Christians who also repudiate the concept. In truth it is not an easy concept to comprehend but I, for one, wouldn't want to trust a god who was merely a bigger (but still limited) version of my unitarian self?!

Nick T said:

I'm not really sure why it is more "understandable" for the jews to reject Christ... I would have thought that those who knew scripture best would have welcomed him with open arms! But in any case it makes no difference; both Jews and Muslims are essentially on the same page.

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Have you not read that God has veiled the hearts and minds of His people, the Israelites, so that we Gentiles might also find salvation (Rom.9-11) and then the veil will be lifted so that the unbelieving Israelites will also find salvation and benefit the (formerly wild) Gentile branches who are already grafted in to the cultivated (i.e. Israelite) vine?

Trust me. Jews and muslims are not on the same page. God has not permanently rejected the Israelite people (Rom.11:28-29). Their rejection is temporary and for our benefit as Gentiles?!

Simonline.

razeontherock said:

I think it's as personal as the individual believer. On this very forum I've encountered Muslims who are purely antagonistic, and mindlessly so, and also those w/ a pure heart and a beautiful spirit. I wouldn't suggest both have the same god. I expect the same holds in Christianity

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Absolutely! God's elect are far from concentrated within Western Christian nations (Rev.7:9-10).

Simonline.