• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Don't like the implications?

TagliatelliMonster

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
4,292
3,373
46
Brugge
✟81,672.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
So, tell me why is east Asia different from France. I asked this question just a while ago and no one can answer it.

Different ecosystems.

There's different plants to digest. My digestive system, for example, REALLY doesn't agree with Indian food.

Different animals to deal with. Unlike in certain parts of Australia, I don't need to check my choose for any poisonous spiders. And I also don't need to get a bunch of preventive shots when I take a stroll to the next village. I only have to do that when traveling to some other continent.

And many other differences.... altitudes, general climate / weather things, humidity, presence and relative location of seas and the effects thereof,... Different places are different places juve....

And, as has been repeated so very often... even if the eco-systems were the exact same, they would inevitably diverge over time anyway because they are genetically isolated from one another.


Meaning that the evolution that happens in a population, stays in that population.
If there is no interbreeding between these populations, then there is no exchange of genetic material.

What is so hard to understand about that?
 
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,668
7,226
✟345,803.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I can't. I don't have time.

Yet, you have the time to make ~22,000 posts on this forum, many of which are plainly wrong on the facts of evolutionary biology.

And, I don't have to. I am sure the study of this question must have been done.

Search engines exist. Libraries exist. Perhaps the answer you seek lies there?

It would have taken just as long to type "I am sure the study of this question must have been done" into this forums, as it would have to typed "geographic variation in skin tone" into google

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Geographic+variation+in+skin+tone
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
LOL! "East Asia" is a geographical region which contains the countries of China, Mongolia, the Koreas and Japan. Now you assert that all of these countries have the same climate as France?

Some places have.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

I can find these differences in central Africa. Why is there only one race?
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
If so, why do you say that evolution is true instead of being probably true?
Because the evidence shows it is so far beyond reasonable doubt that for all practical purposes it can be considered true.

The only adequate alternative scientific hypothesis is that all the evidence we've found corresponds to the ToE just by chance. This would mean that not only were the original observations that led to the natural selection hypothesis simply a bunch of unrelated coincidences, but that the hundreds of thousands of observations in many different fields that have been made since, and are also consistent with it, are all coincidental too - if any one of these observations had been different, the theory would fail.

It only takes a moment's thought to see that the chances of this - of fossil finds covering two billion years, of the anatomy, biochemistry, embryology, geography, distribution, genetics, etc., etc., all corresponding to the ToE purely by chance - are impossibly remote (the probabilities of each observation having the value it has purely by chance are multiplied together to give the overall probability; the number of observations involved means you don't need to know the probabilities accurately - for example, even if every observation had a very conservative 50% chance of being coincidental, twenty such coincidences would be a one-in-a-million chance, 30 would be 1-in-a-billion, and hundreds of thousands of such observations being coincidental would be as near infinitely improbable as you can imagine).

This calculation of the probability of the results of observation being due to chance is regularly done when analyzing scientific experiments so as to give an estimate of the confidence we can have that those results are significant (i.e. did not occur by chance) - it's known as the p value. A typical significance level for a p value is 0.05 or 1-in-20. If experimental results have a less than a 1 in 20 probability that they're due to chance, they're taken to be significant.

For crucially important fundamental physics experiments, such as the Large Hadron Collider, the criteria are stricter - they use what they call '5-sigma', which corresponds to a p value of about 1-in-3.5 million. Another way of looking at it is that if the results were due to chance alone, you'd have to do the experiment 3.5 million times on average before you'd see the results you actually got.

You may say that you have an alternative hypothesis - that God put all that evidence in place in such a way that it all corresponds with the ToE. From a scientific point of view, there's no evidence to suggest that this is the case - and it's not a falsifiable claim - so the scientific response is that we can only draw conclusions based on the evidence available, which is that the ToE is, beyond any reasonable doubt, the correct explanation for our observations.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
Same climate/environment, different race.
OK, I thought this had been covered. When populations are reproductively isolated, they start evolving independently. Since mutations are random in the individuals of each population, over many generations, the genetic make-up of the populations will start to drift apart due to the accumulation of different neutral or nearly neutral mutations (i.e. ones that have little or no effect on fitness), even if all selection pressures are identical. This is known as 'genetic drift' and will cause the populations to slowly diverge over time in many small ways, including appearance.

In practice, when populations are sufficiently separated geographically to be reproductively isolated, they are likely to experience different climatic conditions, and so have slightly different environmental selection pressures acting on them as well as background genetic drift.
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
I can find these differences in central Africa. Why is there only one race?
Which race is that? and do the Aka, Efé and Mbuti (groups of unusually small stature, often called 'pygmy peoples') belong to it?

If you count ethnic groups as races (and, Central Africa being a large area, many of them have been relatively isolated from each other for thousands of years), there are multiple races in Central Africa.

How similar does a group have to be to another group, and in what ways, before they're considered the same race?
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Because the evidence shows it is so far beyond reasonable doubt that for all practical purposes it can be considered true.

What practical purpose? The idea of evolution has no practical use.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

These are all textbook talks. No practical use. When it hits real data, the theory collapsed.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,289
7,505
31
Wales
✟431,925.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
These are all textbook talks. No practical use. When it hits real data, the theory collapsed.

Juvenissun, just state simply what you are getting at. What do you mean by throwing out phrases like 'practical use'?
 
Upvote 0