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That I completely agree with. It does not matter if it was written 10 minutes ago, 10 years ago or 400 years ago. If it brings people before the Throne of God in worship - it is a good song.It is completely fine to use the older music. It doesn't have to be brand new to effectively worship God.
I have a number of red flags from this. I am not talking at all about CCLI.Each week, a thousand Joe Sunday School teachers write a new song. Only one makes it to CCLI, and only one in thousand of those actually earns any money worth mentioning. Not only are they not compensated, no congregation ever sings it. Maybe if the church cared enough to try it, he would develop a local reputation, meet a couple more musicians, and get asked to sing it (and a few others) at some local churches, where he would get the collection money. Plus meet some great people, and hear some mind expanding ideas about God.
That wold be a great discussion topic, Paidiske. If you start it I will come. If you don't start it, I will when I have more time.A choir and a praise band? Most churches are lucky to have somebody who can get a tune out of an organ or piano. Fine for the big churches, but most of us are in very different circumstances.
I'm not against encouraging or paying for the time and talents of local folk, but you have to have them in the first place!
You are entirely correct. Of course, my whole discussion is completely unnecessary for you liturgical, highly historical folks. Many of you are already doing this. in fact, a lot of my ideas are based on the experience of older liturgical base worship.Certainly not all churches use CCLI. (Many don't even use evangelical praise songs. ) Many churches have volunteers for their choir. In my church, even the choir director offers her services for no charge, though we do try to give her some for her work. We don't have a praise band though. Our music doesn't match CCLI's style. Worship style varies greatly among different churches.
In our parish, we do have several composers in our choir. They have composed beautiful musical settings to scripture and psalms, which we integrate in our worship. They offer their services without a fee, with our choir being the group that sings their compositions. (If they decided to copyright it or sell the sheet music, we certainly would support them.). Not all have the talent of musical composition in their church. It is completely fine to use the older music. It doesn't have to be brand new to effectively worship God.
It's great you were able to. If you had not, I had some ideas for you to do so now. Of course, you got no money from it. But perhaps it is a blessing to someone yet.I left that place 20 years ago.
"Online" was just starting to be a thing.
But CD Baby put a recording I did of some of the originals onto youtube a few months ago.
You are entirely correct. Of course, my whole discussion is completely unnecessary for you liturgical, highly historical folks. Many of you are already doing this. in fact, a lot of my ideas are based on the experience of older liturgical base worship.
That's a lot of looking, and it almost sounds like it might be an urban legend. By mishandled, I mean that it is quite easy to protect songs, and it is most unlikely that this kind of thing can happen. Generally, just singing your original song in you church documents its existence by title in the bulletin, negating the later claim of the thief. Your own first handwritten copy (now digital, of course) proves it is your song from that date on, and the date is the controlling item legally.You can go thru the archives of Worship Leader mag from the late 1980s or early 90s. They documented a few cases of that.
What do you mean "mishandled?"
My wife and I use a lot of it in our ministry as well. I was surprised yesterday, at the Delaware Franklin Graham gathering: His musician used two old hymns (with fast finger pickin' guitar), an original of his (I assume), and two patriotic songs at the close. That is what got the mixed crowd singing. All copyright free. That from the son of one of the world's master evangelists.That I completely agree with. It does not matter if it was written 10 minutes ago, 10 years ago or 400 years ago. If it brings people before the Throne of God in worship - it is a good song.
He should go as a guest musician to the revivals and other meetings when he does not have duties as a Sunday School teacher. Many churches have guests musicians for all kinds of things. And he should go because we are one Body and we need to learn from each other.I have a number of red flags from this. I am not talking at all about CCLI.
Why should he go to other congregations? (thus abandoning his post as sunday school teacher) and why would he be accepting collections from them?
I just gave you a like, because I have no idea how to respond, except maybe "glad I could create an opportunity". Oh, I just thought of something: Pentecostals teach a lot on gifts, maybe there is a gift for writing new music, and maybe we need to teach on it more. now, that would be REAL church administration.While my current parish doesn't use CCLI, I used to be an administrative assistant for our music pastor at a large Pentecostal church. We put a lot of money into CCLI then. The subject still interests me, and I think it is helpful to learn from each other.
I just gave you a like, because I have no idea how to respond, except maybe "glad I could create an opportunity". Oh, I just thought of something: Pentecostals teach a lot on gifts, maybe there is a gift for writing new music, and maybe we need to teach on it more. now, that would be REAL church administration.
It has long been a vision of mine to replace the entire copyright/CCLI/royalty system with churches writing their own songs, and simply sharing unofficially.
I actually achieved it when we were livestreaming for my online fellowship. But I have only had very limited success in normal churches.
I'd like to get your comments.
There are actually quite a few such websites. Some for denominations, some for non-denominational folks.Lol, while I'm not Pentecostal now (Orthodox Christian), we do also teach that we are given gifts. While writing music isn't necessarily a specific gift of the Holy Spirit, I truly appreciate that gift when others contribute it to the church!
I personally like the idea of having a digital source for shared music - in my case liturgical, allowing it free of charge for service use, but have royalties if used for performance or commercial use. We use a common digital source of music in the Orthodox Church of America, and all of it is free for liturgical use, but much of it is copyrighted and requires licensing if used for other purposes.
Of course we have special choral pieces that we purchase licensing for as well - but the majority is shared and available at no charge.
I know. I do it all the time. I am discussing why everyone isn't doing it. The copyright law is fine for those who wish to make money. I am not certain they belong writing music for worship.What do you mean by "replace the entire copyright/CCLI/royalty system?" It's already perfectly possible for any gospel song writer to place work into "creative commons" and thus allow anyone to use it. It's not necessary to do away with the copyright law that other creative people depend on for their own living.
I have never attended a congregation where they put the songlist in a bulletin. As a worship leader I often change the list on the fly anyway so doing that would be impossible.Generally, just singing your original song in you church documents its existence by title in the bulletin, negating the later claim of the thief. Your own first handwritten copy (now digital, of course) proves it is your song from that date on, and the date is the controlling item legally.
As to digital dates, I know tons of people including 2 sons-in-law of mine that could very easily change the digital date on any file. That is useless. It still goes on who does the paperwork and gets the copyright registered with the PTO.
I think I gave this answer in response to a question about how did someone mess up his copyright claim. The question involved things that happened in the 1990's, when things were still hand written, and I guess that is how I was thinking (I've been in this a LONG time). I guess it does depend which church you go to whether they put the songs in the bulletin. But you do have a point. A special, if it is original, and you want protection, should be entered somewhere to fix the date. As I think about it now, a Facebook livestream would probably now be the method of choice, especially if later uploaded to youtube.I have never attended a congregation where they put the songlist in a bulletin. As a worship leader I often change the list on the fly anyway so doing that would be impossible.
As to digital dates, I know tons of people including 2 sons-in-law of mine that could very easily change the digital date on any file. That is useless. It still goes on who does the paperwork and gets the copyright registered with the PTO.
Ditto, ditto, and ditto. Glad to meet you.I compose and perform lots of music, have no promotional machine, have no desire to become commercialized, can't find good vocalists willing to put much effort into music projects without money, money, money, so I just keep cranking out tunes for the sheer pleasure of honoring God with music that ultimately belongs to Him since He alone if the creator of notes and the universal, mathematical laws that govern notes, chords, and chord progressions.....except for that mosh pit chaos.....
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffourwindsangels%2Fspiritual-eclipse
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