Doesn't it seem kind of silly?

alexiscurious · Feb 23, 2015

Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Here's the problem in a much simpler way:
God → authors of the Bible → me

↑

Why the heck is this here?

God, why are you filtering your message through the untrustworthy, deceptive, and fallible hands of mankind? I don't want someone else to tell me how much you love me. Please be more polite by simply telling it to me directly. I don't go about telling my mother how much I love her by sending other people to go do it for me. I would rather say it right to her face.

Joshua260 · Feb 23, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Well, you have to remember that it is not God's goal to for you to just believe in his existence. After all, the devil believes God exists. Rather, it is God's goal to bring you into a loving relationship with him. It simply doesn't follow that if God provided empirical evidence to you every day of his existence that you would come to love him as he planned. In fact, some might argue that it could get kind of annoying for God to keep interrupting your daily activities every few minutes just to remind you that he exists. I believe that God knows exactly the best method to use in bringing people into a loving relationship with him. It's quite common for people not to understand the big picture. Even in my own job, I have several people who do not know all of the intricacies of how our company works, but they trust the ones in charge to know better.

So no, God's method does not seem silly to me at all.

alexiscurious · Feb 23, 2015

Joshua260 said:
Well, you have to remember that it is not God's goal to for you to just believe in his existence. After all, the devil believes God exists. Rather, it is God's goal to bring you into a loving relationship with him.

So why can't he tell me that he loves me to my face? Why does he find it better that someone else do it for him? Is he shy or something?

Joshua260 said:
It simply doesn't follow that if God provided empirical evidence to you every day of his existence that you would come to love him as he planned. In fact, some might argue that it could get kind of annoying for God to keep interrupting your daily activities every few minutes just to remind you that he exists.

I can't think of anyone who would ever argue that being interrupted by the most interesting and caring deity in all the universe is annoying.

Joshua260 said:
I believe that God knows exactly the best method to use in bringing people into a loving relationship with him. It's quite common for people not to understand the big picture. Even in my own job, I have several people who do not know all of the intricacies of how our company works, but they trust the ones in charge to know better.

Great way to evade the question...just believe that God knows what's best. Isn't it pleasant to think that way?

Joshua260 said:
So no, God's method does not seem silly to me at all.

Please respond back with more thoughtful answers. I have yet to find any in this post that answer my question.

dcalling · Feb 23, 2015

If you see God in the face you will be dead

And I would think God wants a willing good heart instead of slaves doing good out of fear.

Soul2Soul · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Here's the problem in a much simpler way:
God → authors of the Bible → me

↑
Why the heck is this here?

God, why are you filtering your message through the untrustworthy, deceptive, and fallible hands of mankind? I don't want someone else to tell me how much you love me. Please be more polite by simply telling it to me directly. I don't go about telling my mother how much I love her by sending other people to go do it for me. I would rather say it right to her face.

My understanding and belief is that God did deliver His message in Person .... as recorded in the Bible. Perhaps you might consider Jesus to be untrustworthy, deceptive and fallible ..... but I do not.

Inkfingers · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
So why can't he tell me that he loves me to my face?

How would you know that it is God, rather than the Devil?

bling · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Here's the problem in a much simpler way:
God → authors of the Bible → me

↑
Why the heck is this here?

God, why are you filtering your message through the untrustworthy, deceptive, and fallible hands of mankind? I don't want someone else to tell me how much you love me. Please be more polite by simply telling it to me directly. I don't go about telling my mother how much I love her by sending other people to go do it for me. I would rather say it right to her face.

God does (or can or should) come to you one on one/face to face, but that is by living in and through true Christians. True Christians are privileged and honored to have God work through them and since God gets the glory Christians can get some sharing in that glory by being in close proximity to God when he is glorified.

If God miraculously notifies you of His existence, than you will not have the opportunity to believe in Gods existence, since you would have knowledge of Gods existence and not need faith.

You objective here on earth is not to acknowledge God exist, but to accept His Love (Charity), so that you can have the greatest force in all universes, the force that compels even God to do all He does (Godly type Love).
That acceptance of charity is a humbling activity which faith can provide. God cannot make that Love instinctive to you (that would be a robotic type love) nor can God force His Love on you (that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun).

Bobinator · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Here's the problem in a much simpler way:
God → authors of the Bible → me

↑
Why the heck is this here?

God, why are you filtering your message through the untrustworthy, deceptive, and fallible hands of mankind? I don't want someone else to tell me how much you love me. Please be more polite by simply telling it to me directly. I don't go about telling my mother how much I love her by sending other people to go do it for me. I would rather say it right to her face.

I get the gist of what you’re saying, but I would still be cautious about referring to God as being ”silly”. I take the position that we mere mortals with less than a hundred years under our belt are only just beginning to understand an eternal God’s plans and purposes.

If you relied only on people you’ve met to teach you the vast secrets of the universe, your world and perception would be very small indeed.

Since Jesus came to earth only once around 2,000 years ago, how would it be possible for you to learn, unless people you’ve never met before, wrote about it? Since we have a life span of around 70 years, we’d be out of luck. Jesus died once. He doesn’t need to find his 1000th set of 12 disciples and repeat the act over and over again.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever, it makes perfect sense to learn from those who walked and talked with God, so that we too can walk and talk with God. If you think we’re equally qualified as worthy vessels, then we probably need more repentance.

If you read the Book of Revelations, it's clear that God wants us to rule and reign with him. Making mankind responsible for their actions and carrying forward the testimony of Jesus Christ and being transformed into his image along the way is for the same reason we go to school as kids, so one day we can be responsible and mature adults.

As Jesus described in a parable in Luke 8, many are called, but few are chosen. It's an accepted fact that most people will not enter the Kingdom of God. There's no need for efficiency as we consider it to be.

Joshua260 · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
So why can't he tell me that he loves me to my face? Why does he find it better that someone else do it for him? Is he shy or something?

There's plenty of examples when he did deal directly with his chosen people and they still refused him.

alexiscurious said:
I can't think of anyone who would ever argue that being interrupted by the most interesting and caring deity in all the universe is annoying.

I bet that "murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars (Rev 21:8), not to mention adulterers, might find it uncomfortable if God kept popping in at inopportune moments.

alexiscurious said:
Great way to evade the question...just believe that God knows what's best. Isn't it pleasant to think that way?.

So you think you know better than God about how best to bring people into a loving relationship with him? You're going to have to back up that claim with some proof.

alexiscurious said:
Please respond back with more thoughtful answers. I have yet to find any in this post that answer my question.

That's your problem. I answered by explaining that you cannot know better than God about how best to bring people into a loving relationship with him.

You made the claim that God's method of salvation is silly and inefficient, so the onus is on you to prove that you know better than God.

alexiscurious · Feb 24, 2015

Inkfingers said:
How would you know that it is God, rather than the Devil?

You know, there should be a medal for people like you who answer my question with another irrelevant question. I'm not looking for more questions, just reasonable answers please. Don't stray from the topic.

Hypothetically, I would know it was God the same way the disciples or other old testament people did. They heard his voice and identified it. I don't think the disciples spent much time debating whether or not Jesus was actually the Devil. It's not hard to determine which is the caring, loving deity from the evil and selfish one.

alexiscurious · Feb 24, 2015

dcalling said:
If you see God in the face you will be dead

And I would think God wants a willing good heart instead of slaves doing good out of fear.

They would do it out of common sense, not fear. People aren't stupid. God's bag of goodies includes eternal life & happiness. The devil's bag of goodies is basically empty. People want a good deal and if the opportunity really was there, people would take it. But unfortunately what I've found is the majority of non-Christians do not debate whether or not they are willing to follow God, they debate whether or not he even exists. This is a problem.

alexiscurious · Feb 24, 2015

bling said:
God does (or can or should) come to you one on one/face to face, but that is by living in and through true Christians. True Christians are privileged and honored to have God work through them and since God gets the glory Christians can get some sharing in that glory by being in close proximity to God when he is glorified.

I don't know about you, but I find that sending out random people to deliver a message that God loves them and wants a relationship with them is silly, cowardly, and ridiculous. Especially when this God is the all-powerful being of the universe who can deliver billions of messages in an instant. It seems more sensible for Him to do it himself.

bling said:
If God miraculously notifies you of His existence, than you will not have the opportunity to believe in Gods existence, since you would have knowledge of Gods existence and not need faith.

So what you are telling me is that the following people did not have faith or the opportunity to believe in God's existence, because they were miraculously notified of God's existence:
Paul
Peter
All the people Jesus healed
Mary
Joseph
Mark
Matthew
Luke
....you get the idea

bling said:
You objective here on earth is not to acknowledge God exist, but to accept His Love (Charity), so that you can have the greatest force in all universes, the force that compels even God to do all He does (Godly type Love).

Why can't I hear that he loves me directly from him? Is he too scared or shy or something?

bling said:
That acceptance of charity is a humbling activity which faith can provide. God cannot make that Love instinctive to you (that would be a robotic type love) nor can God force His Love on you (that would be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun).

Yawn... more thoughtful answers please?

alexiscurious · Feb 24, 2015

Bobinator said:
I get the gist of what youre saying, but I would still be cautious about referring to God as being silly. I take the position that we mere mortals with less than a hundred years under our belt are only just beginning to understand an eternal Gods plans and purposes.

Nothing is free from criticism. If you really think I'm going to mindlessly accept these things because "God is beyond our understanding and we are just mere mortals" then you are sadly mistaken.

Bobinator said:
If you relied only on people youve met to teach you the vast secrets of the universe, your world and perception would be very small indeed.

Not the topic of this thread at all. To clarify, I'm asking why God uses a third party, a middle man so to speak, to tell people that he loves them and wants a relationship with them. Why is he too lazy to tell them directly? Can he not send billions of messages in an instant?

Bobinator said:
Since Jesus came to earth only once around 2,000 years ago, how would it be possible for you to learn, unless people youve never met before, wrote about it? Since we have a life span of around 70 years, wed be out of luck. Jesus died once. He doesnt need to find his 1000th set of 12 disciples and repeat the act over and over again.

You are right, we do need people writings to tell us what happened in history. But lucky for us, God is not history. He is an eternal being that surpasses time. So this is no excuse.

Bobinator · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Nothing is free from criticism. If you really think I'm going to mindlessly accept these things because "God is beyond our understanding and we are just mere mortals" then you are sadly mistaken.

Not the topic of this thread at all. To clarify, I'm asking why God uses a third party, a middle man so to speak, to tell people that he loves them and wants a relationship with them. Why is he too lazy to tell them directly? Can he not send billions of messages in an instant?

You are right, we do need people writings to tell us what happened in history. But lucky for us, God is not history. He is an eternal being that surpasses time. So this is no excuse.

I think the testimony of Moses in the Old Testament was very clear that we are so corrupt and evil in our hearts that we would literally burn up in the presence of God. Even Moses himself was not allowed to see God face to face, as God told him he would otherwise die. Even when Moses came down from the mount after communing with God, he had to put a bag over his head, because the people couldn't stand the glory that was emanating from Moses after being in God's presence.

It is only through the grace of Jesus dying on the cross that we even have a chance of communing directly with God, much less receiving anything. God is spirit, and unless we get to the point where we can commune with God by at least meeting him half way, we have to rely on others who are closer to God to do it on our behalf. And even then, it would be limited to just segments.

dcalling · Feb 24, 2015

alexiscurious said:
They would do it out of common sense, not fear. People aren't stupid. God's bag of goodies includes eternal life & happiness. The devil's bag of goodies is basically empty. People want a good deal and if the opportunity really was there, people would take it.

Think about it, eternal life etc, in the next life (which may or may not exists), or a good lavish life now.... Anyone of us really think about eternal life when you can earn a lot of money, having all the fun in life? Most people don't even want to exercise even if they know it is good for them.

alexiscurious said:
But unfortunately what I've found is the majority of non-Christians do not debate whether or not they are willing to follow God, they debate whether or not he even exists. This is a problem.

Debate whether God exists is fine. I had to do that a lot when I was an atheist. There is no way to prove God exists or not exists (although most evidences points to God exists). However if you are already following God's (i.e. try to do good, trying to love others as yourself), been a Christian just make it official, that you are willing to let God's grace save you.

Inkfingers · Feb 25, 2015

alexiscurious said:
It's not hard to determine which is the caring, loving deity from the evil and selfish one.

Pharaoh would disagree...

The point is that you are asking for direct revelation, which is fair enough, but how would you tell God from a Devil? Powerful 'miracles' are no proof.

yesyoushould · Feb 25, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him?

Surely you are aware that God is love. All pure love is noticed by God.

yesyoushould · Feb 25, 2015

It isn't some kind of riddle, elusive and confusing. All such is of fear, cowardess. Being afraid. Fearful.

None of which is of God.

God isn't a serpent, double tongued.

Hawkins · Feb 25, 2015

alexiscurious said:
Doesn't it seem kind of silly that the most powerful, most intelligent, and most loving entity in all of the universe relies on mankind to relay his message for Him? The Bible being God's most important and life-changing message to you & me...delivered by some random people that we have never even met before? This is one of my biggest concerns that keeps me in perpetual doubt and suspicion. Would anyone care to explain why he chooses to deliver his message in such an inefficient and silly way?

Here's the problem in a much simpler way:
God → authors of the Bible → me

↑
Why the heck is this here?

God, why are you filtering your message through the untrustworthy, deceptive, and fallible hands of mankind? I don't want someone else to tell me how much you love me. Please be more polite by simply telling it to me directly. I don't go about telling my mother how much I love her by sending other people to go do it for me. I would rather say it right to her face.

That's already the most efficient way. It's analogue to history. It is a process of human witnessing. Human witnessing is the most efficient way for a truth to be conveyed among humans.

A more efficient way is for God to appear to every individuals for them to get to know God. However, this will destroy the whole purpose of His salvation plan that humans need to be saved by faith.

As a result, He showed up only in front of those chosen witnesses for Bible to be written down in the form of human witnessing. Humans can thus reach the truth through human witnessing. It is analogue to how humans reach a truth in history by putting faith in what is said by the historians.

In a nutshell, multiple accounts of Human witnessing backed by the martyrdom of direct witnesses are already the most efficient way for such a truth to be conveyed (unless God chooses to show up in front of everyone, which will destroy the purpose salvation by faith).

Emmy · Feb 26, 2015

Dear alexiscurious. God is Love and God Loves us, and Jesus gave us good advice in Matthew 22: 35-40: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40, Jesus points out a great truth: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
We start out by proving our love to God, with heart, soul, and mind.
Matthew 7: 7-10: tells us: " ask and you shall receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour: all we know and all we meet,
friends and not friends. God sees our loving efforts, and God approves and blesses us. We keep asking for Love and Joy, thank God, and share all Love and Joy with our neighbour.
The Bible tells us to " Repent and be Born Again," we change all selfish wishes
and wants, into loving and caring for our neighbour. A Christian`s weapon is
Love and Compassion, with it we overcome all enmity and bad behaviour.
People around us will treat us the same as we treat people: love is very catching. This imperfect world needs much love and compassion, and we keep asking and receiving, then sharing all with our neighbour.
The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way. We know that God Loves us and is always there to help us:
ASK AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE. I say this with love, alexiscurious.
Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

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