Does the Universe have a end????

JonF · Jun 16, 2006

A) Just because something is without end doesn’t mean it goes on for ever.
B) The nature of the universe is still highly debated in science.
C) One of the few things we know for sure about the universe is that it is Non-Euclidian. Going in one direction for ever may give interesting results.
D) Space containing infinite volume doesn’t necessarily mean there is life on other planets. What if the further you went from the center of the universe the less mass there was proportionally? In this situation there very well may be no greatest sphere to occupied universe, but a bounded amount of total mass.

lamblion said:
The problem with many Christains today is they refuse to understand science

I agree, I suggest starting with calc 1, then some physics classes.

Cribstyl · Jun 19, 2006

lamblion said:
Scientist have rencently found the potentail for life on Saturn, I don't know the entire story but check it out on Nasa.
But anyway the government has many things we no nothing about. In a ad a read one said that they have reversed Alien technology they found in ships that were dicovered years ago. Knowlege will continue to incease forever
(Daniel-12:4)

And about explaining God, It is possible to expain, and know him to a certain extent, for he has made it known in nature( the things that he has made)
God is a trinity
Water is a trinity(has three forms)
light is a trinity(has three forms)

What we have discovered on Titan (a moon of Saturn) with some similarities to our planet's environment. But the distance from the Sun mean we probably would'nt survive the cold. Imagine (300deg below). Certain lenses reflexs back to us certain gases by giving us a color code.......

As the Hubble Space Telescope continues to send back photo images of Stars and new galaxies, we are able to date and adjust new our probabilities about the age of the universe............
"If there is a light coming to a known location (Hubble), we can resolve the time it takes for that light to get to our planet. We know that the light from the Sun take 8 minutes to get to earth. The speed of light is 299,792,458 metres per second. Or approximately 300 million metres per second, or 186 thousand miles per second.
The bottom line is this, reflected light can measure time and distance.

Contrary to popular opinion many sceintist are christians, They're in awe of how God formed the earth to meet our needs . Imagine life as a creature in water. How much can fishlike creatures learn beyond their environment?

We need to accept that God has created us in His image after His likeness and give Him praise and glory for all He has done for us.

Here at Marshall Space Flight Center, (MSFC) Huntville, Alabama. I work on the new Crew Launch Vehicle being build to replace the current Space Shuttle in 2010. The Hubble main office is minutes away from where I work. As you can see, I am not the brightest guy in the world, but I can find answers to questions that wont compromise our space program or national security.

God Bless

lamblion · Jun 19, 2006

JonF said:
A) Just because something is without end doesnt mean it goes on for ever.
B) The nature of the universe is still highly debated in science.
C) One of the few things we know for sure about the universe is that it is Non-Euclidian. Going in one direction for ever may give interesting results.
D) Space containing infinite volume doesnt necessarily mean there is life on other planets. What if the further you went from the center of the universe the less mass there was proportionally? In this situation there very well may be no greatest sphere to occupied universe, but a bounded amount of total mass.

I agree, I suggest starting with calc 1, then some physics classes.

seeing that the planet earth alone is over bilions of years in age, we can only conclude that other life other than mankind has inhabited this planet. And what about all the space that God has created. Did he create it just for observation? Scripture teaches that the angels were the original rulers of the universe before the fall of Lucifer, so who did they rule?

lamblion · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
seeing that the planet earth alone is over bilions of years in age, we can only conclude that other life other than mankind has inhabited this planet. And what about all the space that God has created. Did he create it just for observation? Scripture teaches that the angels were the original rulers of the universe before the fall of Lucifer, so who did they rule?

?

RaddMadd · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
God created the universe limitless, with no end.
Is their Really no end in space. If so their has to be other life. Why would God create a universe with no end just to be empty!!!

i think the universe is like the world is, if you go far one way you'll eventually be in the same place. but thats just my thought not scriptural

RaddMadd · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
seeing that the planet earth alone is over bilions of years in age, we can only conclude that other life other than mankind has inhabited this planet. And what about all the space that God has created. Did he create it just for observation? Scripture teaches that the angels were the original rulers of the universe before the fall of Lucifer, so who did they rule?

theologists say we were only here for 6,000 years, not billions

lamblion · Aug 14, 2006

RaddMadd said:
theologists say we were only here for 6,000 years, not billions

This is what young earth theorist say. This is not science, but it is only theory that comes from assuption and hypothesis. Before these different theories came along, science has always proven that the earth has exsisted much longer than 6 thousand years, and by the fossil evidence it is cleary understood. Even the exsistance of oil prove that this planet is quite old, because oil itselfs takes millions of years to be formed. Those who believe that the earth and the universe is nothing but 6 thousands years old plainly and clearly believe that mankind or humans are the only life that exsist, and this kind of thinking is not of God nor logic.

RaddMadd · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
This is what young earth theorist say. This is not science, but it is only theory that comes from assuption and hypothesis. Before these different theories came along, science has always proven that the earth has exsisted much longer than 6 thousand years, and by the fossil evidence it is cleary understood. Even the exsistance of oil prove that this planet is quite old, because oil itselfs takes millions of years to be formed. Those who believe that the earth and the universe is nothing but 6 thousands years old plainly and clearly believe that mankind or humans are the only life that exsist, and this kind of thinking is not of God nor logic.

logic? some believe the Genesis gap theory is the answer for this, but im not sure. but doesn't the family lines described in the scriptures tell us how long we've been here? im not sure

lamblion · Aug 14, 2006

RaddMadd said:
logic? some believe the Genesis gap theory is the answer for this, but im not sure. but doesn't the family lines described in the scriptures tell us how long we've been here? im not sure

It's quite clear, according to scripture, how long humanity has exsisted. As you mentioned by observing the timelines of the Bible, this matter can be cleared up quite simple. But the time frame of mankind is not the error here, it is the exsistance of the planet earth and the universe. The question is how long has the earth exsisted, not mankind. It is cleary understood that man has exsisted near 6 thousand years, but has he been the only creature on this planet? The planet earth, according to the research of science, is very very old, and man could not have been the first beings to inhabite it. God created a huge universe. Why? Why so much space? Did a all knowing God do such a thing without purpose? Is this little spec called earth the only planet that has life in the entire universe? think about it.

RaddMadd · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
It's quite clear, according to scripture, how long humanity has exsisted. As you mentioned by observing the timelines of the Bible, this matter can be cleared up quite simple. But the time frame of mankind is not the error here, it is the exsistance of the planet earth and the universe. The question is how long has the earth exsisted, not mankind. It is cleary understood that man has exsisted near 6 thousand years, but has he been the only creature on this planet? The planet earth, according to the research of science, is very very old, and man could not have been the first beings to inhabite it. God created a huge universe. Why? Why so much space? Did a all knowing God do such a thing without purpose? Is this little spec called earth the only planet that has life in the entire universe? think about it.

ok yeah i getcha

hlaltimus · Aug 14, 2006

lamblion said:
God created the universe limitless, with no end.
Is their Really no end in space. If so their has to be other life. Why would God create a universe with no end just to be empty!!!

Yes, it does have an end. Since every object, action or immaterial concept which we do know to be true in the universe is finite or measurable, the universe itself must therefore be finite. An infinite realm composed entirely of finite objects would be flatly contradictory to it's very nature. But don't worry, there is another one far, far beyond our celestial universe known to it's happy inhabitants as the "Third Heavens" and it is truly infinite without any possibility of measurement of that whole realm ever being pondered by those who eternally exist there. Objects in it are measurable, such as Ezekiel's temple, but the whole thing is just as infinite in breadth, width, elevation and depth as the Being is infinite who inhabits it. This realm is so inconceivably immense that pondering it is itself a delightful sort of grief. Oh yes, our universe is not empty anywhere as it's mere existence is a crying testimony to the infinite power of the One who constructed it.

lamblion · Aug 14, 2006

hlaltimus said:
Yes, it does have an end. Since every object, action or immaterial concept which we do know to be true in the universe is finite or measurable, the universe itself must therefore be finite. An infinite realm composed entirely of finite objects would be flatly contradictory to it's very nature. But don't worry, there is another one far, far beyond our celestial universe known to it's happy inhabitants as the "Third Heavens" and it is truly infinite without any possibility of measurement of that whole realm ever being pondered by those who eternally exist there. Objects in it are measurable, such as Ezekiel's temple, but the whole thing is just as infinite in breadth, width, elevation and depth as the Being is infinite who inhabits it. This realm is so inconceivably immense that pondering it is itself a delightful sort of grief. Oh yes, our universe is not empty anywhere as it's mere existence is a crying testimony to the infinite power of the One who constructed it.

wonderful. Simply wonderful

JonF · Aug 15, 2006

lamblion said:
seeing that the planet earth alone is over bilions of years in age, we can only conclude that other life other than mankind has inhabited this planet. And what about all the space that God has created. Did he create it just for observation? Scripture teaches that the angels were the original rulers of the universe before the fall of Lucifer, so who did they rule?

I agree life other than mankind has inhabited this planet, my cat watching me type testifies to that fact.

Why did God create anything for that mater?

The angel comment has no relevance to anything as far as I can tell.

hlaltimus said:
Yes, it does have an end. Since every object, action or immaterial concept which we do know to be true in the universe is finite or measurable,

I disagree with this premise.

the universe itself must therefore be finite. An infinite realm composed entirely of finite objects would be flatly contradictory to it's very nature.

This doesn’t follow from the first premise even if it was correct. Also it’s clearly wrong. Consider the set: {(n,n+1) intersected with the integers where n is an integer}. This set is clearly composed of finite parts but is itself infinite.

But don't worry, there is another one far, far beyond our celestial universe known to it's happy inhabitants as the "Third Heavens"

Uh I may be wrong hear but isn’t the first heaven the sky, the second heaven outer space, and the third heaven where God dwells? Are you saying that God physically dwells somewhere in our universe?

and it is truly infinite without any possibility of measurement of that whole realm ever being pondered by those who eternally exist there. Objects in it are measurable, such as Ezekiel's temple, but the whole thing is just as, width infinite in breadth, elevation and depth as the Being is infinite who inhabits it. This realm is so inconceivably immense that pondering it is itself a delightful sort of grief.

Biblical support for this view of the universe?

Gus2009 · Aug 15, 2006

johnd said:
The anthropic principle is essentially an observation of known aspects about the universe. For example the medium point between the largest thing (the universe itself) and the smallest sub-atomic particle is the galaxy. Between the sub-atomic particle and the galaxy is the earth, and between the sub-atomic particle and the earth is man.

This isnt exactly anthropic principle, perhaps its tangential to it in someway, although i dont see how yet. I think it shouldve been explained as to what it actually is. Anthropic principle says that because of the very fact that humans exist, the universe and its laws must allow for humans to exist. Although this may sound like a big duh moment.....it actually has some implications. If a physicist or chemist or biologist or whatever came to various possible conclusions and could somehow show that one would allow for humans to exist and show the others didnt, then anthropic principle would say go for the former. At least i think i got that right, somone correct me if im wrong.

As to the other conversations about the "end" of the universe. As i understand it, the universe has a boundary although it has no end, in the linear sense. Imagine youre a bug on the face of a balloon. The balloon has a boundary but could you ever find its end? Can you ever get to the end of the earth? The analogy isnt perfect but i think it gets at the concept. I suppose the "edge" of space just curves infinitely back in on itslef and you could never exist outside of space anyway. Again im no expert so correct me if wrong.

Does the Universe have a end????

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