• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does science actually admit "design"?

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Court denies the plea. Provide data and evidence that human eye sight was better in the past.

By that I take it that you believe eyesight is better now than in the past. What makes you believe that?
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

What you present here is a brain issue, not an eye issue. But I will wholeheartedly agree that there is something wrong with our brains....our thinking. The farther we get from the knowledge of God the screwier we become.
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

tas8831

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2017
5,611
3,999
56
Northeast
✟101,040.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
What you present here is a brain issue, not an eye issue. But I will wholeheartedly agree that there is something wrong with our brains....our thinking. The farther we get from the knowledge of God the screwier we become.


So screwy that some insist that the nervous system works in a totally different way than we know it does, like claiming that the aorta can send motor input directly to the larynx via the RLN. A person claiming something so screwy must be like a Satanist or something.
 
Upvote 0

VirOptimus

A nihilist who cares.
Aug 24, 2005
6,814
4,422
54
✟258,187.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

You really really dont understand science and the need for exact use of terms.

And you still havent adressed my point.
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,038
7,403
31
Wales
✟424,366.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
By that I take it that you believe eyesight is better now than in the past. What makes you believe that?

No, don't turn this around on me. You said that people in the past had better eye sight, so you have to provide evidence for that claim. I don't have to provide evidence to invalidate your claim.
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

PsychoSarah

Chaotic Neutral
Jan 13, 2014
20,522
2,609
✟102,963.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
What you present here is a brain issue, not an eye issue.
-_- the blind spot is a product of the physiology of the eye, not the brain. Same goes for the fact that the image the eyes send the brain is upside down. If the information the eyes were sending the brain actually represented reality well, the brain would have to have so many measures to compensate for the flaws, and it is this need for compensation that results in our susceptibility to optical illusions and other problems. It would be extremely unreasonable to expect the brain to fill in the holes it can't even see accurately every time. The problem is, we know those holes don't have to exist because not all animals have them, so why do any animals have them?

But I will wholeheartedly agree that there is something wrong with our brains....our thinking. The farther we get from the knowledge of God the screwier we become.
-_- this is unrelated to our overall conversation, and I would rather you not bring philosophy into this.
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No, don't turn this around on me. You said that people in the past had better eye sight, so you have to provide evidence for that claim. I don't have to provide evidence to invalidate your claim.

I thought I qualified my remark satisfactorily.
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Don't you find it the least bit ridiculous that your own eyes can't even process an image as being upright, so our brains have to flip it? Even the most basic of cameras can manage that, but this "sophisticated" eye can't?

I hope you realize that you have 'stepped in it' here. Of course the others on your side of the table will be silent (or maybe they will PM you).
 
Reactions: Dreger
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,038
7,403
31
Wales
✟424,366.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
I thought I qualified my remark satisfactorily.

You did absolutely nothing of the sort! All you did was say that you THINK human eyesight was historically better, then you tried to back that up by saying "common sense", which is absolutely worthless.
Present evidence for your claim or admit that you're just making stuff up and withdraw it.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Here's what I said. Note the qualifier.

"Our eyes are the victims of generations of physical degeneration. We really don't know how good our eyes were at the beginning of creation, but in any case they were perfect for the vision that God intended them to provide. Heck, they're still pretty good."

 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
No, you are, as usual, wrong.

I'm actually surprised that you don't get it.

Maybe someone will PM you about this as well.

Hint: Light travels in straight lines (for the purpose of this topic).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Enlighten me.

Sure.
Imagine looking at two squirrels through a knothole in a fence. One is on the ground, the other in a tree. Because light travels in straight lines you have to crouch down to look up and stretch up to look down through the knothole (aperature). Imagine holding a piece of paper a foot or so behind the knot hole. The image of the squirrel in the tree falls on the lower part of the paper, while the image of the one on the ground falls on the upper part, thus the image is upside down (it is also backwards left-to-right), it must be so in all such vision systems, as well as all round aperature cameras (sorry Sarah). The visual part of the brain turns the image right side up, as it was designed to do. It cannot be otherwise. I don't know how this could be explained by evolution.

Further, the lens needed to provide an upright image on the retina would be impossibly complex if even possible.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

VirOptimus

A nihilist who cares.
Aug 24, 2005
6,814
4,422
54
✟258,187.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

Yes yes, but human eyes are still far from perfect and contain quite a few flaws (as it would be from something evolved). Your assertions are still baseless and wrong.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Actually, because evolutionary research is actually the study of creation we want you to continue. We just add the proper conclusion to your studies.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,976
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟1,005,212.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Yes yes, but human eyes are still far from perfect and contain quite a few flaws (as it would be from something evolved). Your assertions are still baseless and wrong.

Define "perfect" in regard to human vision. We are designed to grow old and die at around 80, which includes declining visual health.
 
Upvote 0