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Does science actually admit "design"?

OldWiseGuy

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Why do snakes have traits that prevent them from suffocating when they are swallowing large food items.........

I've never been bothered by my blind spot, or my brain filling in the space (but that's just me). The design is very functional for our limited and temporary use.

Aren't some snakes designed with a special tube that allows them to breathe while swallowing large prey. Clearly a design feature, not a 'trait'. It also cannot be explained by evolution.
 
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xianghua

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again: if its make no problem for vision then its not realy a problem.

-_- would you not consider a camera the technological equivalent?
yes. but its still not a real eye, which is much more sophisticated.
 
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PsychoSarah

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again: if its make no problem for vision then its not realy a problem.
-_- anyone that doesn't consider the blindspot to be a problem is fooling themselves. Have you considered that the blindspot legitimately causes you to entirely overlook items small enough to fit entirely within it in your field of vision? Which could include items such as a venomous spider. But no, overlooking that "is not really a problem", apparently.

Plus, the optical illusion effects can cause confusion and eye strain; how are those things "not really a problem"? Perspective can become confused, causing one to misjudge distances, say, between themselves and a deer, so they miss their opportunity to catch their prey and go hungry.

is this not annoying to look at?
Such "sophisticated, intelligently designed" eyes can't even tell that there aren't any black dots in between these squares, even when you are aware of it? You can try as hard as you want, but you'll never be able to perceive all of the white dots as their actual color.

yes. but its still not a real eye, which is much more sophisticated.
Try unnecessarily complicated. Don't you find it the least bit ridiculous that your own eyes can't even process an image as being upright, so our brains have to flip it? Even the most basic of cameras can manage that, but this "sophisticated" eye can't?
 
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PsychoSarah

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I've never been bothered by my blind spot, or my brain filling in the space (but that's just me). The design is very functional for our limited and temporary use.
Our eyes are adequate for survival, but they are far from ideal. "Good enough" is not an indication of intelligent design.

Aren't some snakes designed with a special tube that allows them to breathe while swallowing large prey. Clearly a design feature, not a 'trait'. It also cannot be explained by evolution.
-_- Ignoring most of my post just to post some baseless claims. I should be getting used to that, but I don't, nor will I find such behavior acceptable.

Obviously, as a trait which benefits organisms which swallow prey whole (like snakes do), the trait is easy to explain via evolution. Every trait is derived the same basic way, and this tube isn't some sort of special, evolution defying trait.

Plus, you don't even think about the fact that tons of organisms swallow large food items whole, yet your so called "designer" deemed that only snakes would get this feature. What for? Did this designer favor snakes for some arbitrary reason? It doesn't make any sense, from a design perspective, to only give one group of organisms which swallow large prey items whole a mechanism by which not to choke from it. From an evolution perspective, since populations only gain traits that arise via mutations, it makes perfect sense for many lineages to lack traits which would present an obvious benefit; there isn't any intelligence behind which traits become present in the population, so they work with what they get and what they already have.
 
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tas8831

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I've never been bothered by my blind spot, or my brain filling in the space (but that's just me). The design is very functional for our limited and temporary use.

Golly - you must not have near perfect peripheral vision!

Aren't some snakes designed with a special tube that allows them to breathe while swallowing large prey. Clearly a design feature, not a 'trait'. It also cannot be explained by evolution.
Some snakes possess a special tube that allows them to breathe while swallowing large prey. Clearly an evolved 'trait'. It also can be explained by evolution.

Wow - making assertions IS easy!
 
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tas8831

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That link pretty much says it all.

Yes - it says nothing even close to what you apparently hoped it did.

And awesome how you - yet again - proved your trollishness by ignoring the rest of that post.

It is the creationist's way!
 
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tas8831

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True. For nearly 6000 years millions (if not billions) of people were blissfully unaware of this horrible visual impairment.
So predictable that the creationist tries to laugh off a pretty obvious instance of poor design. That it works well is not evidence that it is good design. But the creationist knows no bounds when it comes to faith protection.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Some snakes need the tube because they take so long to swallow large prey. We'd have to examine the anatomy of those other 'gulpers' to really know.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Our eyes are adequate for survival, but they are far from ideal. "Good enough" is not an indication of intelligent design.

Our eyes are the victims of generations of physical degeneration. We really don't know how good our eyes were at the beginning of creation, but in any case they were perfect for the vision that God intended them to provide. Heck, they're still pretty good.
 
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VirOptimus

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Support assertion with data and evidence.
 
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PsychoSarah

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No, human eyes are pretty meh. Birds have far better eyesight, generally, and their eyes have the same issues of blind spots, etc. Though, compared to other animals, our senses of smell and hearing are far worse.

You are assuming intent when there is no evidence to justify it. It's like asserting that a random rock was made with the intent of being used as a hammer just because it is possible to hammer in a nail with it. Plus, you are also assuming that human eyes were better at some point when there is no evidence for that. Even the bible doesn't suggest anything about human senses has changed (aside from, perhaps, "spiritual awareness", which is not a sense humans demonstrably have ever had), so you are just making empty conjecture even as far as your own religion goes.

-_- nearly everyone needs reading glasses by the age of 40-45, so what exactly is "good" here? Not only that, but even young children which have perfectly "good" vision are farsighted, and this becomes actually worse until the age of 6-7 in which it levels off and then starts to become better with finally having a proper eye shape in the teens. What for? All this does is force the eyes to accommodate more and potentially wear out the accommodation mechanisms in the eye all the faster so that the eye just can't handle doing it anymore in your 40s.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Some snakes need the tube because they take so long to swallow large prey. We'd have to examine the anatomy of those other 'gulpers' to really know.
Irrelevant; all of these animals have the potential to choke, you know that for a fact. So explain why you, as a designer, would ONLY give snakes this mechanism to help prevent choking? Why not make all organisms have the capacity to chew, so that it is indisputably on them if they do choke? To be extremely blunt, even snakes choke sometimes, because their anti-choking adaptations are imperfect and they can end up swallowing live prey (which gets lodged in the throat as it struggles).

All these choking problems which could have easily been prevented by making the breathing tubes and the eating tubes entirely separate.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No, human eyes are pretty meh. Birds have far better eyesight, generally, and their eyes have the same issues of blind spots, etc. Though, compared to other animals, our senses of smell and hearing are far worse.

Birds need better vision to survive. Our senses are dulled by 'civilization' (Loud music wreaks havoc on hearing).
 
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PsychoSarah

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Birds need better vision to survive. Our senses are dulled by 'civilization' (Loud music wreaks havoc on hearing).
-_- nothing we do currently wreaks our vision, and humans demonstrably don't have as good of hearing as, say, dogs (which share our noisy environment). It's not as if everyone on the planet gets hearing damage before the age of 5, yeesh. Smell is even less impacted by the lifestyles of most people, with only people working with harsh chemicals or smoking having that sense damaged to any notable extent.

Also, NEED? Since when is design limited by needs? A car doesn't NEED a sunroof, but that has nothing to do with whether or not it has one. Design is about optimizing, it is about making something the best at the desired functions it can be. So unless you can demonstrate that giving humans better vision would be impossible or would be detrimental to how humans function, you cannot claim that there is an actual reason for humans to have meh vision.
 
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tas8831

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Pity that so many creationists ignore facts in order to pretend that their opinions have merit. Then again...
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Common sense is just a way of writing ”what I think is right”. It has no weight.

It has no weight unless employed. Common sense tells me that removing invasive lake weed overgrowth would help clear up the water. The scientists employed here to make such recommendations don't think so. They think it's better to 'study' the lake some more (meaning there is more money for them if the lakes remain polluted).

Common sense eating doesn't add 'weight' either.

A lot of damage is done through lack of common sense.

Common sense is an asset, not a liability.
 
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