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That's silly.There's one way to find out; cut the many nerve fibers emanating from entire length the giraffe's RLN that connect to various organs along the path, and see what happens.
You haven't read a single post in the thread about how evolution is demonstrated or could be falsified, have you?
As obvious as Creation and ID are, they do not make much sense to me in science. They both can not be falsified through the sciences; they can only purport a conclusion that happens to be supportive and consistent with a belief/worldview. It's more about the seeking of confirmations rather than the method to seek falsifications in order to improve upon, or to dismiss to find new or better hypothesis', etc.
Sure, because genes and nervous systems work EXACTLY like the wiring of a switch.I meant in terms of function. When I wire a 3-three pole switch the common neutral alternates between being 'hot' and being 'not'. Same circuit, different function.
There's one way to find out; cut the many nerve fibers emanating from entire length the giraffe's RLN that connect to various organs along the path, and see what happens.
This is a recapitulation statement (lot's of those in there). Just consider "formed" past tense, had formed; problem solved.
The question is not whether it is better for the nerve to be functional or not, but whether re-routing the nerve would be a better design.
Oh, well, thats that! How convenient! Never mind that regardless of the tense, the order of events is inconsistent. But that is what apologetics is for, right? Reconciling the irreconcilable?
Even better - learn some embryology and you wouldn't need to tinker like an 'engineer' and make silly guesses by making analogies to electronics and the like.
The RLN takes the path it does because of a conserved developmental process, seen in all vertebrates.
During the early stages of development, when the nervous system, digestive system, face/head, and circulatory system are just starting out, ALL vertebrates lay down virtually identical primordia - at this stage of development, they are all literally right next to each other - heart and primordial circulatory system, brain/brainstem/cranial spinal cord, digestive/respiratory system (pharynx) - all jam packed right next to each other.
Bear with me - this is a bit later in development that what I was referring to, but the basic proximity of structures is still pretty clear:
The area around that red splotch in the middle is the developing heart. That ball-shaped thing above that is the developing mandible. To the left of the red splotch/developing heart is the last remaining parts of the pharyngeal apparatus ('gill slits'), to the left of that, the circular thing is the developing external ear. The 'clear' region on the left, extending up into the head, is the spinal cord/brain. You can see little tendrils emanating from the area of the brainstem traveling 'through' the pharyngeal apparatus region (actually, around the pharynx - that clearish region) , heading toward the heart. In the adult, these tendrils (nerves associated with the pharyngeal arches) will extend down through the neck area. The larynx is developing somewhere just under the mandible in this picture. What you cannot see in these pics are the blood vessels emanating and traveling back to the heart, but they are there, and those 'tendrils' (nerves) pass between some of these aortic arches.
See? All right next to each other.
In the human, the larynx 'migrates' lower into the neck. The nerves that supply it are 'dragged' along with the migrating larynx, but since they passed between aortic arches (most of which are now regressing, being co-opted to form adult vessels, etc.) , the nerves are 'pulled' way down into the mediastinum, even as they are connected to the larynx, which stays in the neck.
No need to posit silly electrician-type trial and error tests. Just a little relevant knowledge. But to use a 'design' analogy - it is like doing all the wiring for a car before the frame is built, and then having to route the wiring for, say, the starter around the rear seats and then back into the engine. An act that would get a human designer at the very least laughed at, I should think.
And thats the point - there is no design, just left over developmental processes that 'worked'.
Amazing how that works, isn't it?
Mouse.Are those giraffe embryos?
Maybe you should ask your pastor about this (or you could just tear those pages out).
It seems to me that the tiny nerve filaments that connect to various organs along the path are better protected within the long cord sheath. It looks like a very good design.
LOL!
Amazing - one creationist essay written by a creationist lawyer and you think you've supported your layman's notions. How cute!
Funny thing about this "protection" farce - when I was dissecting cadavers, the first thing we would do is remove the skin. Once an incision is made, it is easiest to use your fingers to separate the skin from the underlying fascia. When doing this, I used to like to watch the 'interaction' of the skin and the underlying tissues (not molecules) - I could watch individual nerve fiber bundles stretch and then finally tear. No bigger bundles for 'protection' - just tiny, filament-like nerve fibers, all by themselves.
It is so precious to see people pontificate on things they clearly have reason to.
By the way - the desperate creationists over at the DI apparently didn't tell folks like you that the RLN is a branch off of the vagus nerve, which extends well down into the abdomen, and the 'delicate' (lol!) fibers they were so concerned about could just as easily have branched directly from the vagus, were the designer 1. real and 2. competent.
Why, even the esteemed Dr. Lönnig doesn't mention this .... for some reason... It is almost as if these wizards are hiding something from people with backgrounds in, say, engineering or 3D modeling or business...
LOL!
Amazing - one creationist essay written by a creationist lawyer and you think you've supported your layman's notions. How cute!
The comment goes directly to the RLN of the giraffe (why am I the only one that knows this stuff?).
How do you think unconscious vocal signals get to the brain so fast when a person, or a giraffe, is suddenly surprised or frightened? Or that the throat tightens and the voice becomes weak under certain stressful situations. This is a visceral reaction (the 'mind' of the body) influencing the function of the throat and voice box without the direction of the brain. The signal gets there via the RLN in the case of the giraffe.
To my wiring analogy, the RLN is similar to a 'loop' found in many common electrical circuits. Great design, and economical as well. If the larynx needs a signal from the aortic arch that loop is a great way to facilitate the 'my heart was in my throat' response. Someday you guys will get it.
LOL!You have a problem with Gray's Anatomy?
ALL such reactions require brain (or at least spinal cord) input, and what you naively call "visceral" reactions are just reflexive, and STILL require brain/spinal cord input.
So I'm right after all.
Spinal Cord - Brain, Spinal Cord, and Nerve Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version
Neurologic Examination - Brain, Spinal Cord, and Nerve Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version
Scroll down to "Reflexes".
What is the difference between "unconscious response" (my term), and "reflex" (your term)?
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