Does it sometimes help you to see God purely as a metaphor?

Marcel · Jul 15, 2003

As an atheist, the only way to get something of value out of the Bible is by looking at the whole thing as symbolisms, metaphors and underlying messages.

For instance, if I take God as a metaphor for the good in us, being created by God translates to: 'supposed to let the good in us prevail'

Heaven and hell being states of mind. Removed from God indicating that without positivity in your heart you won't be able to enjoy things wherever you are.
Something as obnoxious as psalm sixteen, translating to: "if you're not commited to making a positive contribution, giving love and support, you're not much of a good person."

Salvation is the character/person (does it matter in symbolism?) Jesus forgiving those who have a hard time forgiving themselves...

Nobody comes to the lord but through me translating into: you're not going to be able to love others, if you can't feel forgiven for your own mistakes."

Etc etc...

Are there liberal Christians here, who apply a similar approach at times, because it reveals truths about God no litteral interpretation could ever expose?

Just curious.

amie · Jul 15, 2003

Hi Mar
I am relatively liberal in my views, and I am far from a bible literalist. As a believer I think it is a good think to find meaning in the bible whether it be through symbolism or metaphors. I think there are valuable lessons to be learned and there are many things in the bible that I think most people relate to in some way regardless of one's personal beliefs (for example the Thou shall not kill is always a good rule to live by)

I view my beliefs as a positive thing in my life. There are some things biblically that I will never be able to fully grasp. Concept of hell is one of them. As hard as I have tried I can find absolutely no continuity between a loving, forgiving God and a God who sends people to hell for using the free will that he gave us to begin with. When it comes to things like eternal torment the punishment does not seem to fit the "crime" in my opinion...
so it is a good think I do not believe in a fire and Brimstone bruhaha. A belief such as that would be a negative in my life and probably cause me to say something about God that I really do not want to say, considering the fact that I love God.

I generally tend to live and let live, people believe what they want and no ones belief is any better or worse than mine, just different. If someone's beliefs work for them, hey great but I think if a belief (religious or not) is causing someone to harm another person either physically or emotionally in any way then that belief should be abandoned, or at the very least re-evaluated...

Marcel · Jul 15, 2003

amie said:
Hi Mar
I am relatively liberal in my views, and I am far from a bible literalist. As a believer I think it is a good think to find meaning in the bible whether it be through symbolism or metaphors. I think there are valuable lessons to be learned and there are many things in the bible that I think most people relate to in some way regardless of one's personal beliefs (for example the Thou shall not kill is always a good rule to live by)

I view my beliefs as a positive thing in my life. There are some things biblically that I will never be able to fully grasp. Concept of hell is one of them. As hard as I have tried I can find absolutely no continuity between a loving, forgiving God and a God who sends people to hell for using the free will that he gave us to begin with. When it comes to things like eternal torment the punishment does not seem to fit the "crime" in my opinion...
so it is a good think I do not believe in a fire and Brimstone bruhaha. A belief such as that would be a negative in my life and probably cause me to say something about God that I really do not want to say, considering the fact that I love God.

I generally tend to live and let live, people believe what they want and no ones belief is any better or worse than mine, just different. If someone's beliefs work for them, hey great but I think if a belief (religious or not) is causing someone to harm another person either physically or emotionally in any way then that belief should be abandoned, or at the very least re-evaluated...

Amie! erm amen.

I also think that, as a believer in the Bible (partially or whole), you'd need to bear in mind that two millenia ago people had a different way of getting their point across. God would have to adapt to his audience, since that's key in communication. How could he have explained at the time, that he would've put it considerably different, had it been 2,000 years into the future?

zoziw · Jul 16, 2003

As an atheist, the only way to get something of value out of the Bible is by looking at the whole thing as symbolisms, metaphors and underlying messages.

I think on a personal spiritual perspective you can take it that way and derive value from it.

Some parts of the Bible almost demand it like Job, Pslams and Proverbs which are full of symbols and underlying messages.

It is also used when reading about the teachings of Christ as he had a wonderful knack for using parables, metaphors and overstatement to make his points.

Many sermons I have heard in many different kinds of churches have been based on a scriptural metaphor or were centred around an underlying message that rested more in the perspective of the speaker than any kind of objective interpretation of a passage.

Are there liberal Christians here, who apply a similar approach at times, because it reveals truths about God no litteral interpretation could ever expose?

Yes.

Loxly · Jul 16, 2003

Yes .....I could not fathom being a litteralist when it comes to many parts of the bible.

Hunter · Jul 24, 2003

I think the fact that we as humans are attempting to comprehend and communicate an absolute (the Divine) with a human (and therefore extremely limited and often faulty) intellect and medium (i.e., language) makes the use of metaphor almost a prerequisite. To limit yourself to the perceptions and understanding of a few authors, even if you feel them to be divinely inspired, is to limit how far your relationship with the Divine can progress.

Hunter

Edouard · Aug 2, 2003

There is one thing I think you might help you understand , "God". If you believe, love, have faith and follow Jesus, how then will you not see God working in us. The "good in us" is a reflection of the love we have for God and we should always praise him for that. Humble thyselves in the sight of the Lord like little children. To think of God metaphorically takes away his active role in our lives. But to praise God for what he has done for us in our lives and to live accordingly. you shall be blessed.

The concept of Hell is hard to grasp.
Even harder is the concept of Hades and how it fits in the role of heaven and hell.

We don't necessarily understand everything about our God. But one thing he made clear literally and metaphorically in many situations, is that he is just and righteous and pure. God cannot be in the presence of sin, only that which is pure, without defect, made perfect.

May God's words shine upon your house and may His presence fill your hearts, minds,and souls.
Edouard

Papist · Aug 4, 2003

Marcel said:
As an atheist, the only way to get something of value out of the Bible is by looking at the whole thing as symbolisms, metaphors and underlying messages.

For instance, if I take God as a metaphor for the good in us, being created by God translates to: 'supposed to let the good in us prevail'

Heaven and hell being states of mind. Removed from God indicating that without positivity in your heart you won't be able to enjoy things wherever you are.
Something as obnoxious as psalm sixteen, translating to: "if you're not commited to making a positive contribution, giving love and support, you're not much of a good person."

Salvation is the character/person (does it matter in symbolism?) Jesus forgiving those who have a hard time forgiving themselves...

Nobody comes to the lord but through me translating into: you're not going to be able to love others, if you can't feel forgiven for your own mistakes."

Etc etc...

Are there liberal Christians here, who apply a similar approach at times, because it reveals truths about God no litteral interpretation could ever expose?

Just curious.

Although I am a believer in a real God out there, the traditional, theistic God, I believe that it is only possible to speak of God in terms of metaphor and myth. That is what theological and religious language does.

Having said that, I believe in a literal resurrection in the sense that I believe that the Apostles did meet the same Jesus who was crucified, after his death. For a long time, I thought that was a myth, but I tried to find evidence to support that position and in the end concluded that it was not a myth.

Ben Reid · Aug 11, 2003

Papist said:
Although I am a believer in a real God out there, the traditional, theistic God, I believe that it is only possible to speak of God in terms of metaphor and myth. That is what theological and religious language does.

Exactly. We can only make analogies to God. And then try to explain and understand what parts of the analogy apply to Him and what doesn't (there's a proper name for this, but it escapes me at the moment).

Jesus used metaphors and analogies over and over again. It was his modus operandi. Obviously He felt that this was the best way for us to grasp His message.

Oreysi · Aug 13, 2003

Yes! I think that humans have found- not merely in Christianity, but in Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. that the most effective way that we can express God is through the use of metaphors- look at Hinduism, so many metaphors! Also- just a side note to Amie about Hell- God does not send us to hell- when we refuse to acknowledge his free gift of Life to us, we saw off the branch we're sitting on and will naturally drop into hell- but God being God, he will always throw us a lifeline. Whether or not we grab on is our business.

Marcel · Aug 23, 2003

Oreysi said:
Yes! I think that humans have found- not merely in Christianity, but in Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. that the most effective way that we can express God is through the use of metaphors- look at Hinduism, so many metaphors! Also- just a side note to Amie about Hell- God does not send us to hell- when we refuse to acknowledge his free gift of Life to us, we saw off the branch we're sitting on and will naturally drop into hell- but God being God, he will always throw us a lifeline. Whether or not we grab on is our business.

To the believer seperation from God would be hell wouldn't it. That still raises the question whether it would be hell on the unbeliever too. But I'd rather start a seperate thread on that, than have this one spiral off into oblivion.

I hope others will agree.

Gentle Panther · Aug 25, 2003

Marcel said:
As an atheist, the only way to get something of value out of the Bible is by looking at the whole thing as symbolisms, metaphors and underlying messages.

For instance, if I take God as a metaphor for the good in us, being created by God translates to: 'supposed to let the good in us prevail'

Heaven and hell being states of mind. Removed from God indicating that without positivity in your heart you won't be able to enjoy things wherever you are.
Something as obnoxious as psalm sixteen, translating to: "if you're not commited to making a positive contribution, giving love and support, you're not much of a good person."

Salvation is the character/person (does it matter in symbolism?) Jesus forgiving those who have a hard time forgiving themselves...

Nobody comes to the lord but through me translating into: you're not going to be able to love others, if you can't feel forgiven for your own mistakes."

Etc etc...

Are there liberal Christians here, who apply a similar approach at times, because it reveals truths about God no litteral interpretation could ever expose?

Just curious.

I am a very liberal christian. I don't take the bible literally. I do see much in it that is good. I don't look upon God as a metaphor...although I lean in that direction. I still tend to see him as being real....just not sure how I view him in light of contradictions and inaccuracies in the bible. Sorry, I guess I'm not giving a good response!

ZiSunka · Aug 27, 2003

Does it sometimes help you to see God purely as a metaphor?

No. A metaphor can't answer my prayer or show me love. I need a God who can answer my prayers and show me love.

Doctrine1st · Sep 23, 2003

lambslove said:
No. A metaphor can't answer my prayer or show me love. I need a God who can answer my prayers and show me love.

You have just described the metaphoric attributes known as the Christian God.

ps139 · Oct 7, 2003

If God were just a metaphor, I think the whole world would fall apart. Without a real, true foundation for all natural laws, there would be nothing holding anything together. Without a real God, there is nothing.

rich · Oct 17, 2003

viewing God as a metaphor is relative, good for one person may not be good for all, one may find goodness in porn and thus they can say God created porn, because (he might find it good) therefore God is good.
that is why the Bible declares it is not open to personal interpretation.

rich · Oct 17, 2003

rich · Oct 17, 2003

God is not a metaphor

rich · Oct 17, 2003

why is an atheist on this site, just curious?

ragamuffin girl · Oct 18, 2003

rich, atheists go to Christian sites to express themselves. i personally think they also wind up here because they are in deep religious turmoil having rejected God and that debating with christians is soothing. That's coming from a brief jaunt with atheism myself. To despair is to turn your back on God.

I think it's quite clear in the Bible when things are metaphors and when they are not. Jesus' parables were metaphors, or allegories, but that doesn't mean they weren't to be taken seriously. I think the danger in taking hte Bible as metaphor is that we might start bending the rules and justifying our sins

Does it sometimes help you to see God purely as a metaphor?

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