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So then, how can you posit that it wasn't created as you did earlier?
Oh, so wild guesses, then. Okay.
I was mostly with you here until that emphasized, baseless assumption.
No, just trying to have a conversation. If our universe has an infinite past, however, you have a problem of how we got here with an infinite amount of necessary prior events.
Not really. Since there is an infinite amount of time 'behind' us, that's how we got to 'now': an infinite amount of time. The fallacy in your thinking is that we have to get to 'here' from some origin point. But, obviously, we don't: there is no origin point.No, just trying to have a conversation. If our universe has an infinite past, however, you have a problem of how we got here with an infinite amount of necessary prior events.
Originally Posted by SkyWriting
Science demands a first cause for all these things. That is a non-natural power and intelligence. Or Super-Natural or unscientific explanation.
Obviously I have a base for my comment.
There is a law of thermodynamics, which we've covered,
and there is a law of Conservation of information.
It can be summarized in a thousand ways:
- Everyone in computer class knows it as Garbage in - Garbage out.
- Normal life says, Perfectly neat & Clean house at 8 am, plus teenage boy = pig-sty by 8pm.
- Everything normally degrades, especially under a sunlamp.
- Stuff rots
- People forget
- etc.
The myth is, shine a sunlamp on something stupid like slop, and it becomes an intelligent human.
Yet all natural laws and Scientific observations say otherwise.
False dichotomy. You can believe the parts of the Bible that are backed up by evidence, historical or otherwise. Why do you believe those parts that are not backed up by any evidence?Actually, I've read a good bit about most of the mainstream scientific theory. And it's utter rubbish to run around demanding proof. Read the Bible. Either you believe it's historical or not.
Of course, if we can't discern an intelligence, why would we wish to attribute it the universe to one? I think that's the key thing; You WANT to believe an intelligent creator created the universe so you interpret patterns in that fashion. Personally, I couldn't care less if we find one or not. Either way, my universe won't come crashing down, I won't feel hopeless nor desperate. It would be exciting, for sure, to find a god out there but unlike you, I am not against my atheism being wrong.As far as what suggests intelligence is not subject to scientific discovery, but merely opinion, so just because we can't discern intelligence doesn't mean that the laws of physics, math, logic, and morality, which seem fairly orderly, do not have an intelligence at least strongly suggested.
I'm still waiting for science to find a good answer as to why we're here. I'm not holding my breath.
This is hilarious! I'm calling Poe.Obviously I have a base for my comment.
There is a law of thermodynamics, which we've covered,
and there is a law of Conservation of information.
It can be summarized in a thousand ways:
- Everyone in computer class knows it as Garbage in - Garbage out.
- Normal life says, Perfectly neat & Clean house at 8 am, plus teenage boy = pig-sty by 8pm.
- Everything normally degrades, especially under a sunlamp.
- Stuff rots
- People forget
- etc.
The myth is, shine a sunlamp on something stupid like slop, and it becomes an intelligent human.
Yet all natural laws and Scientific observations say otherwise.
I'm still waiting for science to find a good answer as to why we're here. I'm not holding my breath.
Not really. Since there is an infinite amount of time 'behind' us, that's how we got to 'now': an infinite amount of time. The fallacy in your thinking is that we have to get to 'here' from some origin point. But, obviously, we don't: there is no origin point.
False dichotomy. You can believe the parts of the Bible that are backed up by evidence, historical or otherwise. Why do you believe those parts that are not backed up by any evidence?
Of course, if we can't discern an intelligence, why would we wish to attribute it the universe to one? I think that's the key thing; You WANT to believe an intelligent creator created the universe so you interpret patterns in that fashion. Personally, I couldn't care less if we find one or not. Either way, my universe won't come crashing down, I won't feel hopeless nor desperate. It would be exciting, for sure, to find a god out there but unlike you, I am not against my atheism being wrong.
Not necessarily purpose - but just the why as in why something other than nothing.As in purpose or what do you mean?
Why do you accept THAT written evidence and not other evidence (written, historical, empirical, etc) that contradicts it?I accept the written evidence, find the Christian faith to make sense, etc.
Good to see that you wouldn't be hopeless if we discovered there was no god, somehow.Fair enough, except I disagree with the hopeless part.
Not necessarily purpose - but just the why as in why something other than nothing.
Why? You said the problem is how "we got here with an infinite amount of necessary prior events", yet the solution is simple: we do have an infinite amount of prior events (or, to be more precise, time).If there is no origin point, then there is an infinite past, which is definitely a problem.
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