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Does 1 Corinthians 4:6 prove sola scripture?

Afra

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Of course the Lord is the authority, thats why His word is the authority. Why would i call Him lord and not do what He says?
Good so the Lord is your authority, and Sacred Scripture is your authority. That denies Sola Scriptura right there, given that you have an authority other than the Bible.

It just so happens to be that the Lord revealed things to the Church that are also not recorded in the Bible. This is Sacred Tradition.

Do you doubt that our Lord has revealed things to the Church that are not contained in the Bible? Does the Lord only teach and discipline you?
 
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Mountainmike

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Nope. Catholicism isnt the authority. The Word is the authority, being both scripture and Spirit teacher.
Which -as always - is a non answer to the various statmenets I made.
And the words of scripture are not the word of God unless you have the true meaning.And the true meaning comes from tradition.

I can only suggest you study early church history of the catholic church (small c) the ONLY church
You will see Jesus did not tell apostles to write he said "do this" he did not say "write this"
He appointed apostles to hand on the true faith.

And you will see the disciples of the apostles were clear. John taught polycarp, ignatius, and from them to iraneus. Now read what they all have to say, that true doctrine lies with appointed bishops in succession, with primacy at Rome.

And the reason they say that is faith was passed by tradition, "handing down" so it mattered who you took the faith from, to get authentic truth. which is why it says "how can they teach if they are not sent?"

We see - also - the keys of the kingdom (role of prime minister) given to Peter , which we see as fulfillment of the keys of David in isaiah (incidentally calling that title "father". We jesus give the head pastor job to Peter "tend my sheep" he saod - and to him and apostles jointly the power to "bind and loose" which meant at the time "give definitive interpretation of law and doctrine". Which is why the "foundation of truth" is the church (it doesnt say scripture) and disputes are to be taken to the church.

The church pronounced on many heresies and false canons as a result. How do we know the creed and trinitarian belief? The early church fathers. Why is the protoevangelium of James not scripture? The church said so. Why was marcions canon (the first) heretical? The catholic church decreed it. Why are the books you now have in the NT? The church finally decided at Hippo..

So the Word delegated the role of teaching to apostles headed by Peter, who handed it on to succession bishops. Jesus did not say here is a manual "read it". not is the NT a manual of belief. Nor was it avaialble to most for over a millenium. The canon was a collection authoritatively decided in council centuries later, weeding out a lot of other similar works.

Study history and you can no longer believe sola scriptura. The fact that you try to use a verse of a letter to prove or disprove sola scriptura, shows you do not understand history, or indeed the fact that the letters all had context, which you needed to understand them. So any interpretation will not do.

You also fail to see the logical falasy.
If "all truth is in scripture" and you hold that as truth, it must be in scripture or you have invalidated your own premise. Scripture nowhwere claims that. QED the proposition is false. Basic logic. Worse scripture identifies truth outside itself, both as tradition and authority of church "the pillar of truth"


I will say no more, because I know in my heart of hearts, I am wasting my breath , and you will still echo the same easily disprovable falsehoods next year. Sad.

Meanwhile THOUSANDS of protestant theologians and pastors have returned home, from every walk of protestantism . because as they all discover protestantism and sola scriptura is incompatibel with early church. She addresses that as one of the steps on her journey.

Suggest you watch this... I just found today, one womans journey,
There are hundreds more on such as coming home network
She thought as you did. Once.

SO DID I . Till i studied the early church.

 
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BobRyan

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1 Corinthians 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

yes.

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"

Gal 1
"6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we (Apostles), or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"
 
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jamesbond007

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BobRyan

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Nope. Catholicism isnt the authority. The Word is the authority, being both scripture and Spirit teacher.

True.

And BTW - each denomination has its tradition, and leaders and no lack of voices saying "we are right - because we always say we are right" ... which we all agree is not "proof" that they are each right.

Which -as always - is a non answer to the various statmenets I made.
And the words of scripture are not the word of God unless you have the true meaning.And the true meaning comes from tradition.

Not according to Christ

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

2 Peter 1
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
 
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BobRyan

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You would have found the words in the Bible to prove sola scriptura.

No - you have to find "scripture" in the Bible to support the teaching of "sola scriptura"

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"
 
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jamesbond007

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Good luck with that. One can't argue truth vs the devil. He's too powerful as he can twist truth into lies. Now, I'm not saying one side is the devil, but if one let's the truth be obscured whatever their denomination, then they would have lost.
 
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BobRyan

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You would have found the words in the Bible to prove sola scriptura.

No - you have to find "scripture" in the Bible to support the teaching of "sola scriptura"

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"

Good luck with that.

Thanks!

One can't argue truth vs the devil. He's too powerful as he can twist truth into lies. Now, I'm not saying one side is the devil, but if one let's the truth be obscured whatever their denomination, then they would have lost.

True. "Sanctify them in Thy TRUTH -- Thy WORD is Truth" John 17:17

2 Peter 1:20-21 " 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."

Notice how Jesus uses the term "Word of God" in this example?


Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
 
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PaulCyp1

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If Sola Scriptura is true, why have those who practice it fragmented into thousands of conflicting denominations, each claiming to have gotten their beliefs "right out of the Bible"? Truth cannot conflict with truth, therefore conflicting beliefs necessarily mean false beliefs. Which is why Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "He who hears you hears Me", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven". Which is why that ONE Church has remained ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in biblical understanding, ONE in worship throughout the world, with NO conflicting denominations, after 2,000 years. You just can't beat God's plan.
 
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jamesbond007

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I understand your view, but help me to apply it and see it through the journeys of Apostle Paul.

I think Acts was about Berean Jews vs the Jews in Thassolonica. While those who studied the scriptures daily were more "noble," I do not think it means sola scriptura. It means, "generous spirit, who are open-minded toward truth, not prejudiced, hostile, or suspicious of others, but give others a fair hearing." That is, they lived and practiced scripture trying to think and be good instead of just reading and understanding.

The Berean: Acts 17:10-13

What about Corinth? Was the church Paul visited pagan? Help me out here since I cannot find what the church at Corinth was about. To cut to the chase, did Paul's journeys eventually conflict with the church of Peter? Is Paul the word of sola scritura?
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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[Staff edit].

So we have one that thinks the Bible is true because you find it to be true and helps you understand your experiences in life and faith.

Sorry, the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God and only God is only true. There is no other that is always true. As to us believing the Bible is true, it has nothing to do with it being true. The atheist is not going to escape the words of judgement proclaimed on those that reject God in his Word.

I may be wrong, but it seems like your same reservation against Sola Scriptura could be used to question anything in the Bible that you don't believe is true.
I am not quite sure I understand your argument
1) Scripture is true, unquestionably always true. This is accepted among Christians because it is God's word.

2) No one has proven another source of always unquestionably truth about God.

Lacking example 2, the only thing that remains is 1, Scripture.

If you don't understand this argument, you may search for my thread on it.
Speaking of circumlocutious. You nailed it.
 
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Yarddog

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We all know Scripture is true, unquestionably true.
Why do you know that scripture is unquestionably true? Who gave you the books which most call scripture today?
What is lacking is proof of any other authoritative source of God's word that can always be held as unquestionably true.
If you doubt those that came together to choose the writings which make up most Christian Bibles, then why do you trust those writings?
As NONE have proven this, by default we are left with ONLY Scripture as
unquestionably true.
Writings which the early Church, using oral and written tradition, said were worthy of being called scripture
Sola Scriptura.
Since Sola Scriptura isn't taught in scripture then it is contradictory to claim the doctrine. Scripture says that we are to use the teachings handed down by the Apostles, whether written or spoken, so to reject the oral traditions of the Apostles is the same as rejecting the written.

God Bless
 
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Tayla

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1 Corinthians 4:6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
A good verse for Sola Scriptura.
 
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W2L

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Scripture and the Holy Spirit-teacher are my authority. We all gotta walk our own road and no one can walk it for us.

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, [a]you abide in Him.
 
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Mountainmike

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You still have not addressed a single issue I made that refutes sola scriptura.

I can only urge you to study the early church, and Jesus's chosen form for the church, that passed by apostolic tradition, and authority to resolve on doctrine, tradition gives correct meaning to The NT which was a product of the Catholic church, and came later. That is undeniable history,

Sola scriptura a falasy of the reformation.
Jesus is the Catholic authority, not the wish of reformationists, to decide their own doctrine,


 
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BNR32FAN

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Not true brother I only reject many Roman teachings. I don’t reject a single teaching of the Orthodox Catholic Church which has kept the original traditions of the apostles. Hence the name Orthodox meaning traditional. Which was also established by Peter in Antioch before the church in Rome.
 
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Mark_Sam

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Sorry, the Bible is true because it is God's Word and God and only God is only true. There is no other that is always true.


The problem is that this is circular logic, akin to saying "Scripture is true because Scripture is true". Don't get me wrong, of course I agree with you that the Scriptures are true and the word of God. But frankly, a Muslim could use the excact same argument for the Qur'an: "The Qur'an is true because it is from God, and we know it is from God because it is true."

We should be able to bring more rigid arguments to the table when the world asks us why we should believe the Bible instead of the Qur'an or the Vedas or whatever. That's the point being made.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"
The Bereans can actually be used as an argument against Sola Scriptura. They studied the Scriptures, and when they understood that Paul was preaching the truth, they accepted the unwritten apostolic traditions Paul brought - the preaching of the apostles, Baptism and the Lord's Supper, and so on (cf. v.12 "Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men."). Now, I might be exaggerating, but there is still something to this point.

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.
I has been a long time since I studied Corinthians. After skimming the surrounding verses, it seems like this verse has more to do about pharisaical practice of going up and beyond what is required, in order to boast of yourself. Just a thought. The latter half doesn't really make sense in a Sola Scriptura perspective: "We should teach the unwritten traditions of the Apostles - therefore I am better than you." Non sequitur.
 
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BobRyan

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You would have found the words in the Bible to prove sola scriptura.

No - you have to find "scripture" in the Bible to support the teaching of "sola scriptura"

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"

I understand your view, but help me to apply it and see it through the journeys of Apostle Paul.

I think Acts was about Berean Jews vs the Jews in Thassolonica.

Both of which would have had access to scripture and both of which would have started from a non-Christian POV/Bias with their "Magisterium" instructing them to "Follow the tradition of the elders and reject the Christian sect".

While those who studied the scriptures daily were more "noble," I do not think it means sola scriptura.

It says "to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" all the while their "Magisterium" was instructing them to "Follow the tradition of the elders and reject the Christian sect".

That is as "sola scriptura" as it gets.


It means, "generous spirit, who are open-minded toward truth, not prejudiced, hostile, or suspicious of others, but give others a fair hearing."

That works for part of the text but you have to delete the entire sentence that remains to "stop there" because the "detail" that would need to be "fixed" by the anti-sola-scriptura POV is the "remainder" the part that says "to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" all the while their "Magisterium" was instructing them to "Follow the tradition of the elders and reject the Christian sect".


The Berean: Acts 17:10-13
What about Corinth? Was the church Paul visited pagan?

I don't think "church" and "pagan" go together.

Acts 17:1-6 shows that the non-Christians meeting in the synagogue (both Jews and gentiles) listened to Paul's gospel preaching Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath - and that some of them chose to become Christians while others did not.

Help me out here since I cannot find what the church at Corinth was about. To cut to the chase, did Paul's journeys eventually conflict with the church of Peter? Is Paul the word of sola scritura?

One church. But when Paul goes to Corinth - no Christians there - until he leaves. So there was "no church" in Corinth to start with. But there was a synagogue and there were both Jews and gentiles meeting there for worship.
 
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BobRyan

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You would have found the words in the Bible to prove sola scriptura.

No - you have to find "scripture" in the Bible to support the teaching of "sola scriptura"

1 Cor 4:9
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other.

Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so"

The Bereans can actually be used as an argument against Sola Scriptura.

That would be some impressive creative writing.

This should be good.

They studied the Scriptures, and when they understood that Paul was preaching the truth, they accepted the unwritten apostolic traditions Paul brought

"studied the scriptures to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" all the while their "Magisterium" was instructing them to "Follow the tradition of the elders and reject the Christian sect".

You say "They studied the Scriptures, and when they understood that Paul was preaching the truth, they accepted..." and I assume you mean they accepted his teaching that proved to be true AND accepted additional doctrine that Paul brought -- details about the Messiah born as a carpenter's son, having 12 disciples , rejected by the Jews, died for our sins, is in heaven as our high priest Hebrews 4, Hebrews 9.

Sure. How is that "against" testing all doctrine "sola scriptura"?

- Now, I might be exaggerating, but there is still something to this point.

"Sola scriptura" does not mean "only the Bible tells the truth" it means the Bible is the standard, the rule against which all doctrine,tradition, practice must be tested.

Bob
 
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