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It takes faith to believe in the things that we cannot see, such as the resurrection of the Christ.Faith is the evidence of things not seen. The evidence that you are suggesting we put our faith in is of things that are seen. My only evidence of the things of God is the word of God.
I agree that it was Satan. Is it possible that calling him the serpent was the same as when Jesus called the leaders of the Jewish people 'vipers' and children of Satan? How would Satan have gotten into the Garden, is it possible that this is when sin was revealed in this angel, now call Satan and so it is now that God punishes him?It was Satan, however, it seems a creature was involved in whom Satan resided for the talk with Eve. Unless you think that Satan lost his legs/wings? The devil had already fallen by that time.
I think that's an interesting question.
First, we should read Genesis chapters 2-3 with a true listening, without trying to see this or that idea, but really to learn the deeper lessons.
Things like the essential deep issue for our souls like: Trusting in God, instead of ourselves, ultimately....
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But, once we do really listen, and really hear, and have these invaluable deep lessons, then we could just for fun ask the very much less important questions about what parts were only literally concrete (none, some, much, all, etc....) and what parts instead of just-concrete (alone) have deeper meaning.
But, since the meanings are crucial for us, let's look at one.
Here's a great example of something with a deeper meaning:
Genesis 2:22 And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him.
Of course God could have chosen to form Eve from the ground, just like Adam....
From "dust" or from "mud".... Or from a piece of Adam's skin(?).... Or a thigh bone marrow?....
But He didn't choose those.
Instead, He chose a part of Adam close to his heart.
She is for Adam closer than his own skin. She in some sense protects his very breath, and heart.
Those are the kind of messages we are to absorb from scriptures, see. They are profound, and deeply helpful in life.
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About the relatively unimportant speculation on concrete details. My total speculative guess is that the Garden was literally on the Earth -- not in another dimension, even though it has the wondrous, time-stopping (or time-altering) Tree of Life (!!)....
But this is only speculation, and not really important if person A or B guesses correctly about some esoteric detail about 'when' or 'how' or such. (only the profound meanings really matter)
Jesus did.Just curious. I really don't.
Totally agree. Hope I didn't give anyone the impression I disbelieve in the Garden of Eden! I have the opposite view: it is so very real it is more real than 99% of the things around us we think are meaningful. Was there a place it seemed as if I suggest it's not about reality? I want to communicate clearly. Maybe my post was too long and complex? When I said I think it was literally present on Earth here in this dimension, was that too far down and not read you think?What you write is profound and deep and has real sense to it!
However it doesn't in any way negate the fact that God formed Adam and then gave him life and then took a rib and made Eve for adam! Just because we can find many applications in a verse, does not mean that the verse should not be taken anything less than literal unless the construct demands us to!
Totally agree. Hope I didn't give anyone the impression I disbelieve in the Garden of Eden! I have the opposite view: it is so very real it is more real than 99% of the things around us we think are meaningful. Was there a place it seemed as if I suggest it's not about reality? I want to communicate clearly. Maybe my post was too long and complex? When I said I think it was literally present on Earth here in this dimension, was that too far down and not read you think?
Also, I don't want to lose or obscure the main thing I was hoping to communicate: that the deeper meanings are the reason we have this account available, and we are to listen to hear those, first and last.
What we should most want is for people to stop preaching doctrines, and truly listen to the Word, fully, with all of their heart, and really hear it, so that they are changed.I didn't imply anything. Iwas just making a general response without anyone in mind. But glad to know you believe God as He caused men to write!
What we should most want is for people to stop preaching doctrines, and truly listen to the Word, fully, with all of their heart, and really hear it, so that they are changed.
You can take Truth and represent part of it in a doctrine. But the Truth Himself is the better thing. Like how a pizza is better than just a piece of pepperoni.I partially agree! Doctrinne is simply what God has to say about a matter. So we need to know what God has to say about salvation inorder to be saved!
We need to know the doctrine of Joy, inorder to know how access the fullness of Joy Jesus offers us!
I suspect he can fly. Ha. How did he get to the meeting in heaven of the sons of god in Job? How did he cause a house to be blown down also in Job? How did he take Jesus to a high mountain?I agree that it was Satan. Is it possible that calling him the serpent was the same as when Jesus called the leaders of the Jewish people 'vipers' and children of Satan? How would Satan have gotten into the Garden, is it possible that this is when sin was revealed in this angel, now call Satan and so it is now that God punishes him?
Nevermind, I'd like a discussion rather than whatever this is. Enjoy.I suspect he can fly. Ha. How did he get to the meeting in heaven of the sons of god in Job? How did he cause a house to be blown down also in Job? How did he take Jesus to a high mountain?
You can take Truth and represent part of it in a doctrine. But the Truth Himself is the better thing. Like how a pizza is better than just a piece of pepperoni.
The real cause for joy. That transformation that happens to us, from above.
John 10:27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me.
I agree that it was Satan. Is it possible that calling him the serpent was the same as when Jesus called the leaders of the Jewish people 'vipers' and children of Satan? How would Satan have gotten into the Garden, is it possible that this is when sin was revealed in this angel, now call Satan and so it is now that God punishes him?
Angels fly, Jesus flew up to heaven, we will be like Him. Not sure why anyone would think that was open to debate.Nevermind, I'd like a discussion rather than whatever this is. Enjoy.
As time moves forward the human race grows larger. Logical conclusion would be that if you went backwards in time the human race would become smaller and smaller, until eventually the human race went back to one man and one woman.Just curious. I really don't.
As time moves forward the human race grows larger. Logical conclusion would be that if you went backwards in time the human race would become smaller and smaller, until eventually the human race went back to one man and one woman.
As time moves forward the human race grows larger. Logical conclusion would be that if you went backwards in time the human race would become smaller and smaller, until eventually the human race went back to one man and one woman.
I'm with you. I believe that the story is an analogy, not a factual account. To me the fact that Genesis contains two creation accounts that do not agree with each other proves this. Others are, of course, free to have their own beliefs.Just curious. I really don't.
Hi Komatiite and Happy New Year. To be clear, stating "we have human fossils much older" is a statement of faith, correct? In other words, it is an inferred/calculated age based upon a set of assumptions, as opposed to a written record corroborating when these humans lived relative to a fixed date we could anchor to from today's date?At the above rate, we might expect there to be no people by the year 20,000 bc, but we have human fossils much older, suggesting that people lived further back in history, but just didn't have modern agriculture and lived in a Hunter gatherer society.
And those fossils continue back to times before people existed, suggesting that populations do not originate as two individuals, but rather they originate as pre existing communities. At least going back long long before any observed human fossil.
Hi Komatiite and Happy New Year. To be clear, stating "we have human fossils much older" is a statement of faith, correct? In other words, it is an inferred/calculated age based upon a set of assumptions, as opposed to a written record corroborating when these humans lived relative to a fixed date we could anchor to from today's date?
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