• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Do you think that the story of Adam and Eve literally happened?

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoG

Veteran
Site Supporter
May 14, 2005
1,363
118
✟92,704.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single

From my perspective I do not see much difference between the literalist who ascribes the hidden things of God to miraculous events and the one who concludes that it is all meant to be allegorical. It makes the Bible either a book of miracles or a book of fables rather then a literal history of how God brought about the world as we see it today, using the physical laws of this creation.
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,485
3,222
Hartford, Connecticut
✟364,864.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Well there isn't really a third option.

Either it's literally true or its allegorically true.

If you feel that there is, feel free to explain.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

It was Satan, however, it seems a creature was involved in whom Satan resided for the talk with Eve. Unless you think that Satan lost his legs/wings? The devil had already fallen by that time.
 
Upvote 0

Job 33:6

Well-Known Member
Jun 15, 2017
9,485
3,222
Hartford, Connecticut
✟364,864.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
On that comment @miamited

"Faith is the evidence of things not seen. The evidence that you are suggesting we put our faith in is of things that are seen."

If it is seen, then it doesn't really require faith, rather it is simply a matter of seeing observed reality and acknowledging its existence.

Or perhaps we could say that it takes no more faith to believe in what is seen than there is faith that I am looking at my computer screen right now. In which case, I wouldn't consider it faith at all to believe that my computer exists, rather I would simply refer to my experience as a form of knowledge.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FaithT

Well-Known Member
Dec 1, 2019
4,623
2,166
65
Midwest
✟459,684.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Because no talking snakes and magic fruits have ever been observed by science as far as I'm aware.


I think the snake itself didn’t speak on its own but was possessed by Satan and Satan made it speak.
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,503
10,870
New Jersey
✟1,357,060.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I think the snake itself didn’t speak on its own but was possessed by Satan and Satan made it speak.
But it was given a punishment as a snake. It looks like the implication of the punishment is that snakes originally walked. I don’t see why God would curse snakes if it was simply an animal possessed by Satan.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: lasthero
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,503
10,870
New Jersey
✟1,357,060.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
I do believe that they were literal people because of 5 reasons.
I agree with this, but only in part. The story should be understood as literal rather than some kind of symbol. That's pretty obvious. But that doesn't mean it was understood as historical. I'll use as an analogy the novels about Harry Potter. I have been known to use characters from it as examples in middle school Sunday School because they're characters that everyone knows about. The stories are literal, in the sense that they are about actual people. The characters aren't just symbols or metaphors. But they're also not historical figures. In earlier days people would have used characters from Shakespeare the same way.

I don't think we can tell just how people understood Adam and Eve. It may not even have been the sane for everyone. Certainly among Romans there were people who understood that the myths weren't historical, but it's likely that others thought they were. I would agree that 1 Tim 2 makes no sense unless the author thought Eve was historical. In contrast, Job 31:33 is poetic, and might actually mean "as men do." But I don't agree that the Gospel makes no sense without it. Sin exists, no matter how it got here.
 
Upvote 0

Livingstones2020

Biblical Creationist
Dec 25, 2019
62
87
39
Lancaster, PA
Visit site
✟39,707.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Single
I see, but there is no evidence of them being anything other than historical figures. Just because some of our literature use fictional characters to display some truth doesn't mean that we can treat it away like Genesis. Like I said before in my post, Romans 5 claims it was historical and most Biblical scholars agree that Genesis is written in a historical narrative. If Adam wasn't a historical figure, then Noah wasn't either, and so wasn't Abraham, and even Jesus wasn't real either. Because real people have to come from real people.
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,503
10,870
New Jersey
✟1,357,060.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Yes, Genesis was written as a historical narrative in terms of its style. Biblical scholars agree on that. It wasn't like Pilgrim's Progress where there are characters but they're really symbols for other things. That's an example of a symbolic story. But don't confuse the agreement that it was non-symbolic with being a correct account of history. Biblical scholars certainly do not agree with that unless you throw out all scholars that disagree with you.

There are very suspicious similarities with legends from other groups in the area. (https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~kdickson/233W5Q8.html) Those stories, however, had the earth created by the gods playing some quite ungodly games. In my opinion, the early Jews didn't have any way of knowing how creation was done. But they did know what God is like, and knew that the stories currently going around weren't like him. So they created a corrected epic that's consistent with God's character.
 
Upvote 0

MrsFoundit

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2019
899
200
South
✟48,276.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If Adam wasn't a historical figure, then Noah wasn't either, and so wasn't Abraham, and even Jesus wasn't real either. Because real people have to come from real people.

I believe that the issue is was Adam directly created or was he rendered "Adam" by spiritual intervention, in either scenario a biological Adam from whom there were descendants can exist.
 
Upvote 0

Livingstones2020

Biblical Creationist
Dec 25, 2019
62
87
39
Lancaster, PA
Visit site
✟39,707.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Single
I see. But could it be possible that Adam and Eve were real and the Genesis account was based on a true story?
 
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,503
10,870
New Jersey
✟1,357,060.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

coastal_hiker

Member
Dec 29, 2019
8
0
69
oregon
✟22,907.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
reframing the question, did we develop the capacity to see the world in third person? yes this absolutely happened literally. Did we develop a kind of blindness to first person? yes factually we have. The intellect is a funny region of the cranium. it loves itself.

So yes the story is literal in that regard.
 
Upvote 0

MrsFoundit

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2019
899
200
South
✟48,276.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I see. But could it be possible that Adam and Eve were real and the Genesis account was based on a true story?


If science does not define what is possible, yes it is. "In the beginning, God..." fails a science exam anyway.
 
Upvote 0

Livingstones2020

Biblical Creationist
Dec 25, 2019
62
87
39
Lancaster, PA
Visit site
✟39,707.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Single
No, it couldn't be. Here's a good article on the subject: Cover Story: Historical Adam
I read through the article, and it didn't explain much. First of all, it had very literal Bible references in it.

2nd, it is taking man fallible ideas and added into the Word of God. We are fallible creatures, trying to understand the world around us. However, when God said that this occurred, I rather believe the Creator more than man. None of the things that are in the article comes from the Bible.

3rd, it is written in a view of putting a great age on the Earth. It talked about hundreds of thousands of years, which isn't true because of many reasons. It talks about the bottleneck theory in population. The only problem is that the bottleneck theory is not 150,000 years, like most scientific resources will tell you. We currently have over 6 billion people today. Around 1999, we crossed into 6 billion people. In the 1800s, we cross a billion people. If we go further back, around the time of Jesus, there was 1/4 of a million people here. The timeline can be traced back to around 4,300 years not hundreds of thousands of years.
 
Upvote 0

Livingstones2020

Biblical Creationist
Dec 25, 2019
62
87
39
Lancaster, PA
Visit site
✟39,707.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
Single
If science does not define what is possible, yes it is. "In the beginning, God..." fails a science exam anyway.
So it is impossible to have a global flood or the virgin birth or even a man walking on water. However, God's can exceed of what is possible or impossible.
 
Upvote 0

MrsFoundit

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2019
899
200
South
✟48,276.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So it is impossible to have a global flood or the virgin birth or even a man walking on water. However, God's can exceed of what is possible or impossible.

"But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:26.

In other words, yes.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.