Do you have "rights"?

I born, raised, and live in the U.S. I have been overseas several times and in Mexico a handful of times. I know the abundance that I as an American enjoy. I live under a government that was once styled for a life of freedom to worship as one saw fit. Free of denominational dominance in the political spectrum. The founding fathers of the U.S. wrote high sounding words about rights and liberties that our Creator bestowed upon all men. I grew up believing that I had those rights and nobody should be able to deny me those rights.

When I was 21, I started bible college. While I had been studying the scriptures for a while on my own, at school I learned how to examine the scriptures in a more disciplined way, so that I could better understand the content, the context, and the intent of the scriptures. One of the things I discovered as I grew in my understanding was that before God Almighty, I have no right to anything. All of the blessings that I enjoy are gifts from God, and not anything that I have a right to demand. Sure, people were still telling me I have rights, but as I was searching the scriptures, I found that I could not find a single passage that said I have so much as one of the rights that are contained in the U.S. Constitution.

I dug further. I have read and studied every book in the bible, and for over 25 years I have been convinced from scriptures that I have privileges allowed me from God, but I have no right to demand anything from Him. I do not have the right to life, as is claimed in the Constitution. That, God has reserved to Himself. I do not have the right to liberty. Again, God has reserved that unto Himself. It is God who says when I can come and go, and without His permission, all my insisting in the world will not change that fact. It is God who gives me permission to live where I live, to do the kind of work that I do, and to associate with whom I associate.

All of these things come to me from God's hand. I have no rights given to me by nature. Nature is the creation of God and is subject to His rule. I have no rights bestowed upon me because I was born in this country or that. It was a group of men who started a country and gave it it's rules. Those rules were written by men and they have not the authority to tell God what I have a right to. I have no rights because I am a human. Humans are simply another of God's creations and they have no authority to tell God I have a right to human rights. I have no rights because I was born in a democratic society. Democratic societies are merely an instrument of God's design and making, and also subject to His rule.

If I had any rights, I would be able to go to God and demand He give me my rights. I can go to God all day long and tell God how I'm entitled to this or that because I have rights, and those cries would fall on deaf ears. Why? Because my claims would be false. Indeed, shall the clay say to the potter, I have rights!?

Therefore, I can state unequivocally, there are no democratic or human rights that the people who live in the the E.U., the U.S. China, Russia, the holy land, or anywhere else are entitled to, and are being denied, no matter what they call theirselves or their government. Those so called rights do not exist. This applies to every person in every country.

The scripture does not equivocate when it says, "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof." This is the source of much of the conflict in the world. People are trying to claim rights to territories when people don't have rights, but privileges. Better to say, if the Lord wills, I will go to such a place, or if the Lord wills I will leave here or there.

In times past God has changed the future of a people based on their willingness to submit to God. The prayer of one man has motivated God in such ways before. He has not forgotten whom He has promised what. He will sort it out. We simply cannot force Him to fulfill a promise to a people before His appointed time by claiming some false right. The great tragedy of the U.S. is that we have lost the understanding that "thus sayeth the Lord" is the supreme law of the land, in every corner of the world, including the U.S. and Israel, and unto the four corners of the earth.

I hope you will begin to see, it is only when you abandon your so-called rights to God, that you can truly enjoy the fulness of His gifts and privileges. I prayerfully request God purge you of the belief that I, you, or anyone else has any right, human, democratic, or other, to anything. The clay has no rights. The Potter has made you as He wills with zero rights. To accept this truth, is not to abandon support for your kinsmen. It is to be obedient to the Most High God who knows what is necessary and best, and has an unlimited view of the future.

I challenge you, go to God, and run through your list of rights with Him. Tell Him how He has to give you which is yours by right. Then come back and tell me about all the times He agreed that you were going to get any of those things simply because it is your right to get them.

May God give you the grace and peace to receive this most difficult of lessons. And I pray when you have come to understand and accept this truth, you will pass it along, and that God will use it to bless His people.


Ps 145:8 The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion.

Human rights are necessarily temporal rights, chump. God can't have temporal anything.
More to the point, though, the rights enumerated in the constitution do not relate to how God deals with men, but only how men deal with each other. The argument is that for one man to force certain things upon another is necessarily unjust and cannot be tolerated
in a legitimate society. Your god can still do whatever he wants.

RecoveringPhilosopher said:

Human rights are necessarily temporal rights, chump. God can't have temporal anything.
More to the point, though, the rights enumerated in the constitution do not relate to how God deals with men, but only how men deal with each other. The argument is that for one man to force certain things upon another is necessarily unjust and cannot be tolerated
in a legitimate society. Your god can still do whatever he wants.

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I must respectfully disagree. God took on temporal, in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, God can have temporal.

Also, it is stated, with regard to the United States, that (all men) are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights", and many people are using this statement as their source of authority to claim they have rights viz a vie other men. However, what makes that claim true? The fact that they claim it?

If there is no god, is it not survival of the fittest, and no holds barred? But if there be God, then His word is absolute, and in order to be able to legitimately claim a right, you must find Him as the source of that right. So again, what is the source of the rights you say exist, whether they be between men or between man and God?

Tell me where God has verified the legitimacy of any man's claim to a right. There is only one person with the necessary power to enforce a right. That would be God, and God alone. For man to be able to force God to give him what he is "entitled to" as a matter of "right", would cause God to cease to be God, as man would then have power over God.

I have rights, which are a societal creation. With no society, I would have no rights.

Fear said:

I have rights, which are a societal creation. With no society, I would have no rights.

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Again, the answer begs the question. What is the source of any society's authority to create rights? Who gave society the authority to create rights?

Ps145 said:

Again, the answer begs the question. What is the source of any society's authority to create rights? Who gave society the authority to create rights?

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We, being members of society, give society the authority to grant rights. The Constitution is man's attempt to level the playing field to allow for everyone to have the ability to reach their full temporal potential.

Society gave society the right to recognize and create rights. It is something a free society simply took. No person granted them. Who gave the brutal dictator the right to create rights? Well, the dictator's power and brutality.

The question assumes that there must be a prior source or authority for such things, when the object and source of the rights can be one in the same.

Yes, I think that equality is the most basic human right.

Ps145 said:

I must respectfully disagree. God took on temporal, in the person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, God can have temporal.
Also, it is stated, with regard to the United States, that (all men) are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights", and many people are using this statement as their source of authority to claim they have rights viz a vie other men. However, what makes that claim true? The fact that they claim it?
If there is no god, is it not survival of the fittest, and no holds barred? But if there be God, then His word is absolute, and in order to be able to legitimately claim a right, you must find Him as the source of that right. So again, what is the source of the rights you say exist, whether they be between men or between man and God?
Tell me where God has verified the legitimacy of any man's claim to a right. There is only one person with the necessary power to enforce a right. That would be God, and God alone. For man to be able to force God to give him what he is "entitled to" as a matter of "right", would cause God to cease to be God, as man would then have power over God.

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You're actually going to make me do this, aren't you? You are actually going to make me have this argument. Fine, let me go unpack my brain. It's not like I've used it since college.


What we have to talk about in this context isn't why we have rights. That will lead us nowhere. What we should talk about here is the history of an idea.
As every good christian knows, your saint Paul argues that we should obey temporal authority. He says that all authority to rule comes from God, and, therefore, insofar as the temporal authority is just, then it follows God's will. It is only when the authority disobeys God that rebellion is permissible. This is why some christians don't even speed.
In the middle ages, this biblical concept made itself manifest in the concept of the divine right of kings. Advocates of this idea argued that because God gives all earthly authority, and because the kings have said authority, then God must have hand-picked each one of them to rule.
Now, this was well and good until it became evident that a lot of kings were really terrible at what they did. So, in light of that, some of the smarter members of the European upper class revisited the idea. The line of thinking proceeds thusly: why is the king in charge? Because everybody does what he says. Why do they do what he says? Because he'll kill them if they don't. How will he kill them? He has all the troops. Why do the troops do what he says? No idea, they just do.
And now that seems to be that; the king has power because the people have given it to him. It seems then that it is the people who really have the authority, even if that authority consists entirely in choosing the leader. Therefore, one who obeys the leader obeys the people, and because it is really the people in charge, and because it is God who puts people in charge, then God has granted authority to the people. Ergo, democracy. Chew on that.

Ps145 said:

Again, the answer begs the question. What is the source of any society's authority to create rights? Who gave society the authority to create rights?

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Who gave God the authority to create rights?

Why do we need an authority to allow us to do something?

Ps145 said:

Again, the answer begs the question. What is the source of any society's authority to create rights?

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Since "rights" are exactly that - that which society gives you - I don´t understand the meaning of your question.
Bread is what the baker makes. The fact that no superiour being has given him the authority to make bread doesn´t change anything about it being bread.

Who gave society the authority to create rights?

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Are there soccer rules?
Who gave the FIFA the authority to create soccer rules?

I voted yes, in regards to a pretty down-to-earth understanding of "rights".
The source of my authority to claim those rights are those rights I am given.

I sense that the OP actually means something different when saying "rights", but I am not entirely sure what exactly he means - except that apparently nothing short of authorized by a god is included in this concept. Since I don´t believe in the existence of gods I do not believe in the existence of god given rights, either.

RecoveringPhilosopher said:

... then God has granted authority to the people. Ergo, democracy. Chew on that.

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I think you mischaracterize that a bit. It says in Romans to be subject to the rule that God has placed over you.

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil..."

Nowhere in the passage does it say you have rights, only that God establishes governments at His pleasure. If you look through history, you will see, as one of my pastor's would figuritively describe it, God's great experiment with government, to prove by demonstration to satan that no government run by man could succeed, and that his lies to man that man could successfully self govern were false. Every time man has asked for a new form of government, God has allowed it to be tested. And each has failed. No nation has ever lived under a pure democracy. Some communities have, but it would be impractical to even attempt direct democracy. Nothing would ever get done. That is why we have respresentative democracy, and in representative democracy, the little guy, if he has any power, only has power as part of a collective group, not as an individual, while still being subject to the government. And he still has to get other men to agree with him to advance any perceived(alleged) right. If however, I go collect the majority group of little guys, and change the rules, poof goes any rights you thought you had.

Adammi said:

Yes, I think that equality is the most basic human right.

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"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

Do you question God's right to make us UNEQUAL? Because God says that is exactly what He does and He goes on to say you have no right to challenge that.

So then, where do you get this idea that you are somehow entitled to something God expressly states you are NOT entitled to?

Ps145 said:

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

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Whilst this makes sense in regards to unconscious objects, equating the production of a pot with creating conscious self aware beings and implanting brain and desires into it is omitting some significant differences.
This analogy time and again strikes me as absurd.

Do you question God's right to make us UNEQUAL? Because God says that is exactly what He does and He goes on to say you have no right to challenge that.

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Since having been given authority by something else seems to be the prerequisite for having authority in your view: Who gave your god the authority to define rights?

Ps145 said:

I think you mischaracterize that a bit. It says in Romans to be subject to the rule that God has placed over you.
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil..."
Nowhere in the passage does it say you have rights, only that God establishes governments at His pleasure. If you look through history, you will see, as one of my pastor's would figuritively describe it, God's great experiment with government, to prove by demonstration to satan that no government run by man could succeed, and that his lies to man that man could successfully self govern were false. Every time man has asked for a new form of government, God has allowed it to be tested. And each has failed. No nation has ever lived under a pure democracy. Some communities have, but it would be impractical to even attempt direct democracy. Nothing would ever get done. That is why we have respresentative democracy, and in representative democracy, the little guy, if he has any power, only has power as part of a collective group, not as an individual, while still being subject to the government. And he still has to get other men to agree with him to advance any perceived(alleged) right. If however, I go collect the majority group of little guys, and change the rules, poof goes any rights you thought you had.

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It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.

Ps145 said:

"Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

Do you question God's right to make us UNEQUAL? Because God says that is exactly what He does and He goes on to say you have no right to challenge that.

So then, where do you get this idea that you are somehow entitled to something God expressly states you are NOT entitled to?

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I don't at all think that verse means that God created us unequally and even if it did, that doesn't make any difference to me. I find it very sad that people would use such obscure scripture references to justify inequality.

Adammi said:

I don't at all think that verse means that God created us unequally and even if it did, that doesn't make any difference to me. I find it very sad that people would use such obscure scripture references to justify inequality.

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With all due respect, I think as you get older you will find this is not an obscure passage, but a core passage. There are deep truths being explained by God about his relationship to His people Israel, and man in general in this Romans 9 passage.

"...It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
...
Nay but, O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,..."

God unquestionably made some a cut above the rest, and understand He designed the world so everyone isn't equal for specific reasons.

Ps145 said:

With all due respect, I think as you get older you will find this is not an obscure passage, but a core passage. There are deep truths being explained by God about his relationship to His people Israel, and man in general in this Romans 9 passage.

"...It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
...
Nay but, O man, who are you that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,..."

God unquestionably made some a cut above the rest, and understand He designed the world so everyone isn't equal for specific reasons.

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It's been a while sense someone has pulled the "Your not old enough" card on me. If age corrupts my interpretation of this scripture, then I pray that I die young.