Do you have a dress code in your Synagogue or congregation?[open]

MariaRegina · Oct 21, 2006

Okay, since you are talking about dress codes, I do have another question.

Do you have a dress code in your synagogues or temples?

Many Orthodox Christian traditions come from the Jews.

In our monastery temples and grounds, women are asked to wear modest long dresses with long sleeves, cover their hair, and wear socks. They sit on the opposite side from men. Is this also true in Judaism?

I visited our local synagogue many years ago, but cannot remember much about it, except that the people were very friendly to us.

MariaRegina · Oct 22, 2006

Are women allowed to wear pants to a synagogue?

Or do different Jews have different rules, for example, the Orthodox Jews, the Reformed Jews, etc.?

s0journ3r · Oct 22, 2006

The women in my congregation normally wear long dresses (i.e., passed the ankles), long sleeves (i.e., passed the elbow), and high neck lines. They wear head coverings as well. Modesty is the goal. The men wear long pants (i.e., no shorts) with long-sleeve shirts. Ties are optional. We don't expect visitors to abide by these standards, though. We welcome everyone to come as they are. We'll love them anyway!

I've never been to another congregation other than my own, so I don't know what their dress code would be, if any. The majority I've spoken with, however, pretty much described their standards to be in line with ours.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

français · Oct 22, 2006

well, typically we're preferred to wear this or that. however, pretty much anyone can show up in anything and be accepted. i don't go to a messianic congregation, but my jewish friends have told me that just like chrisitian churches, you're asked to dress a certain way, but you don't have to.

Wags · Oct 22, 2006

In a reform congregations pretty much anything goes as far as attire. Conservative is well, more conservative in attire. And orthodox is the most conservative/modest of all. Men and women are seperate during services as well.

The messianic congregation I attend does not have a dress code, but we are a very small group. The men usually dress in dockers and a polo (in the summer) women are usually in a tea length skirt, but I wore bibs to services the last few weeks I was pregnant as that was the only clothing I had to wear that still fit me - (ONE pair of bib overalls) and I wasn't about to buy something I was only going to wear for a few weeks. No one said a word about how I was dressed, they were just amazed that I was still showing up for services.

Hadassah · Oct 23, 2006

Thus far, the only dress code we have is for the dancers.

Many of the women aren't wearing headcoverings, mainly those of us who dance only, though there are a couple who do not cover.

There are maybe three other ladies in the congregation who are not dancers who do cover 90% of the time in services.

I think right now I'm the only one who wears a headcovering every day...

Most folks wear short sleeves, some wear shorts, and some short skirts.

Me, nothing higher than just below the knee and nothing lower than 3inches from the collar bone. (that gives me about three inches leeway until anything that should be covered)

Generally I wear shirts that come to the elbow or longer, sometimes wearing longer sleeved shirt or jacket on the short sleeved things I have from before I became more observant.

Families and couples can and do sit together- we do not have a set side for men and women.

Our congregation branched out of a baptist church and is part of the SBC [Southern Baptist Convention] and MIA [Messianic Israel Alliance].

Basically we're a bapti-costal messianic congregation.

I'm not sure how else to describe it as far as what people wear and where they sit/don't sit.

Generally speaking our services are likened unto the traditional liturgy, except we have music and dancing, and lower the lights during that time.

Tishri1 · Oct 23, 2006

yes, jeans too, to dance our dance team must wear longer skirts and shoes and nothing low cut HMMMMM thats about it

Tpolg · Oct 23, 2006

First let me explain that there are two distinct types of Judaism. There are those that fallow the “oral law” (the Talmud) and those that fallow the written Torah alone. The Talmudists have a very elaborate system of rules regarding dress for both sexes, right down to which shoes to put on first. Where as the written Torah is rather simpler in regards to such matters, for women it is basically that you should not wear a garment of mixed fibers (for example 50% cotton 50% polyester) and that you should not wear that which pertaineth to a man (britches, trousers, etc). As fair as tzitzit and tallit tefillin go, some think that they are specifically masculine. I personally do not find substantial grounds for this in the Torah, and am cool with a woman wearing a tallit as long as there is something distinctly feminine about it, and it would also be a handy thing to cover with when she prays of prophesies.
As far as segregation of the sexes goes, on the model of the ancient temple there would be an aria where only men can go (I believe the east orthodox also has this) but there is not necessarily a women only section. I have been in congregations that do it both ways, and for matters of expedience I think it works better for the women and children to all sit together.

Hadassah · Oct 23, 2006

Tpolg said:
...for women it is basically that you should not wear a garment of mixed fibers (for example 50% cotton 50% polyester...

Actually, the command is wool and linen (cotton or actual linen from reeds) ... to differentiate the clothing of the levites and the regular Israeli in the commonwealth, as well as due to the wear and tear issue.

It doesn't bear on non-animal/non-plant imho (different "poly-" products)... that would actually be another thread. You might want to research here on the forum, there was a thread not too long ago on that..

Hadassah · Oct 23, 2006

Tpolg said:
....and that you should not wear that which pertaineth to a man (britches, trousers, etc)...

In many cultures, "pants" are specifically for men or women.

In Semitic cultures (incl India), men have a specific robe-like outfit with a type of pants, as well as women having outfits with either tunics or a feminnine robe-like outfit.

In places like China and Japan, women have a specific pant-type that was traditionally for women, as well as specificly female kimono.

In places like Ireland, Scotland and Wales, men wore robes made of the tartan fabric that were long for winter, and shorter for summer that were somewhere between what the modern kilt looks like and a robe-like outfit... (ever seen Braveheart or Highlander?) and with the introduction of horses, they added tights which then gravitated to something more "pant-like".

Women kept with their traditional garb that then gravitated to something more like dresses, and then to skirts & shirts.

In Germany it was about the same with the Goths, Visigoths, drudic people etc.. then in come the Greek and Romans and our people. (we have almost as much tradition there as the Germans themselves!)

For me, I find I can't wear traditional jeans or anything. I can only "get away" with Palazzo pants (kinda like the old ones that the early film starlets wore) and be modest, but I have to wear skirts otherwise to be modest as I do have an hourglass shape.

It's hard to cover and hard to not reveal every asset I have.

I think alot of the modesty issue will stem from a woman's shape (there are many!) and how it is best to cover her shape to be modest.

For some, something akin to what the amish and mennonites wear would be perfect, but for others, it would be more of a hinderance and not covering enough.

For some, dressing 100% like the chassidim would be perfect and do a great job...

Whereas for some it would do better to modify something from the Edwardian or Victorian era to better cover.

Some ladies I know are more modest in pants than any skirt or dress due to their size and shape...

Men have it pretty easy in the respect of being modest. Just grab some pants that stay up above your hips and don't wear them too tight or too loose (not to be confused with 'tulouse' ) and a nice shirt, voila! modest!

HaNotsri · Oct 23, 2006

The Kohen Gadol wore "sha'atnez" (a mixture wool and linen)

P_G · Oct 23, 2006

Yes I have a very strict code in our congregation

Everyone must be dressed

And I REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME!

PG

MariaRegina · Oct 24, 2006

P_G said:
Yes I have a very strict code in our congregation

Everyone must be dressed

And I REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME!

PG

lol

Do you remember the outcry and the media event in Los Angeles in the late 1970s when a Catholic priest said something like:

"A woman should never wear pants to church."

ChavaK · Oct 24, 2006

Tpolg said:
First let me explain that there are two distinct types of Judaism. There are those that fallow the “oral law” (the Talmud) and those that fallow the written Torah alone. the written Torah is rather simpler in regards to such matters, for women it is basically that you should not wear a garment of mixed fibers (for example 50% cotton 50% polyester) women .

Just a quick clarification...there is only one "type" of
Judaism...however different sects interpret the Torah
and Talmud differently
The mixture prohibited is linen and wool, and is prohibited to both man and woman.
I go to an Orthodox shul, but not all people that go are Orthodox. However, most people dress appropriately. This includes skirts at least knee length, sleeves to the elbow; nothing risque. About half of the married woman either totaly or partialy cover their hair. We do get some women who come sleeveless, or wear clothes a little tight, or on rare occaisons someone will wear pants (usually a visitor who isn't aware of how people dress in an Orthodox environment). But there isn't a "dress code"- no one is going to be turned away because of how they dress. No one is going to say anything to these people- if they come often enough they will see
for themselves how to dress. We try to be a haimish
shul, so we do not question a persons dress style...

ChavaK · Oct 24, 2006

P_G said:
Yes I have a very strict code in our congregation

Everyone must be dressed

And I REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME!

PG

LOL

Torah · Oct 24, 2006

The congregation that I use to attend did have a dress code, [That I approved of]
If a woman started attending on a regular bases, and she wore low tops and /or short dresses. She would have been approached by and older woman, with a wraparound dress and/or a large scarf [to cover there tops, and asked to wear, “this pleas”. Because what they are wearing in a place of worship before Adonai was inappropriate. As for Scarf’s for head covering people see others wearing them and seam to start on there own, Or someone will offer them to use one they have.

Hadassah · Oct 24, 2006

It used to be kind of like that where I go Torah...

There were around 7 women covering during the services and I asked where they got them (I had already been convicted before coming to cover, but couldn't find long coverings) so I could get some.. and when two other young women about my age started attending, they asked me where I got mine and ordered some also.

As far as clothing, I wish someone would say something, but it seems it sounds so disrespectful coming from the young (somehow). You get shot down as it's "pride".

No, not pride.. just tired of looking at the basic "Bs" that should be covered.. and sleeveless tops.

Maybe some of that will change with the fact it's gotten colder..

Torah · Oct 24, 2006

Years ago my family and I were sitting in a Church waiting for service to start. When, two rows in front of us a young woman in a very short dress, I say 26 to 30, bent over the row in front of her to pick something up and raised one of her legs to do so. She exposed her entire crouch to my family. We left. At another Church a woman 35 to 40 was wearing a top so low that when she started jumping up & down during the praise & worship time, one of her boobs popped out. We left.
I have very strong feelings in favor of dress codes.

Tpolg · Oct 24, 2006

antsinmypants said:
Actually, the command is wool and linen (cotton or actual linen from reeds) ... to differentiate the clothing of the levites and the regular Israeli in the commonwealth, as well as due to the wear and tear issue.

It doesn't bear on non-animal/non-plant imho (different "poly-" products)... that would actually be another thread. You might want to research here on the forum, there was a thread not too long ago on that..

Although some plants do have naturally occurring polyesters, my primary concern is that many synthetic polyesters are made using biomaterial unknown. It could be plant, animal, unclean animal, a person! (Ok not very likely) One could argue that once it has been through the synthesizing process it has "passed though the fire" but really is it so hard to just wear something that is 100% cotton, wool, etc?

Tpolg · Oct 24, 2006

antsinmypants said:
In many cultures, "pants" are specifically for men or women.

In Semitic cultures (incl India), men have a specific robe-like outfit with a type of pants, as well as women having outfits with either tunics or a feminnine robe-like outfit.

In places like China and Japan, women have a specific pant-type that was traditionally for women, as well as specificly female kimono.

In places like Ireland, Scotland and Wales, men wore robes made of the tartan fabric that were long for winter, and shorter for summer that were somewhere between what the modern kilt looks like and a robe-like outfit... (ever seen Braveheart or Highlander?) and with the introduction of horses, they added tights which then gravitated to something more "pant-like".

Women kept with their traditional garb that then gravitated to something more like dresses, and then to skirts & shirts.

In Germany it was about the same with the Goths, Visigoths, drudic people etc.. then in come the Greek and Romans and our people. (we have almost as much tradition there as the Germans themselves!)

For me, I find I can't wear traditional jeans or anything. I can only "get away" with Palazzo pants (kinda like the old ones that the early film starlets wore) and be modest, but I have to wear skirts otherwise to be modest as I do have an hourglass shape.

It's hard to cover and hard to not reveal every asset I have.

I think alot of the modesty issue will stem from a woman's shape (there are many!) and how it is best to cover her shape to be modest.

For some, something akin to what the amish and mennonites wear would be perfect, but for others, it would be more of a hinderance and not covering enough.

For some, dressing 100% like the chassidim would be perfect and do a great job...

Whereas for some it would do better to modify something from the Edwardian or Victorian era to better cover.

Some ladies I know are more modest in pants than any skirt or dress due to their size and shape...

Men have it pretty easy in the respect of being modest. Just grab some pants that stay up above your hips and don't wear them too tight or too loose (not to be confused with 'tulouse' ) and a nice shirt, voila! modest!

With all do respect of course, I do not really care what the pagan and heathen think on this matter, I do not worship them. One could I suppose study what thirteenth dynasty Egyptians thought on the matter as well as ancient Midian and Canaanites. But such information would be fragmentary at best and still open to opinion and interpretation, and even if it were right before us it could hardly be conclusive for The Creator was certainly not indorsing these cultures.
If we are truly seeking to be pleasing to Him, then I think we are best served to keep to the book of His word and the book of His works.
In my Tanach studies so fair I have not come across anything that instructs women to cover their assets, there is a bit in Proverbs about the virtuous woman buying a field, but I am not really sure how that could be applicable. Now in the apostolic writings women admonished to cover their heads (which one hopes is an asset) but I don't think she should cover it with trousers.

Do you have a dress code in your Synagogue or congregation?[open]

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