Do you agree with this statement?

football5680 · Sep 17, 2014

Without the Virgin Mary the human Jesus wouldn't exist, but he is God so he has always existed. The Church was established through the earthly coming of Jesus so without him becoming man through the Virgin Mary there would be no Church.

Knee V · Sep 18, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
No, of course not. I was only showing how the Apostles spoke and what they spoke of. And its God who gives glory through Christ, we don't have that right to give any one person glory. No one can glory in His presence because none are good, not one. Mary will share in the Glory of Christ as every other saint will, but if you are suggesting that Paul was glorifying Abraham then you miss the point I think. And we are all saints if we belong to Christ.

Of course our glorification is *sharing* in God's glory. That is why Christ came.

Albion · Sep 18, 2014

Without Mary's mother, St. Anne, "there would be no co-redeemer of the world, dispenser of all graces, ever-virgin, bodily Assumed, Immaculately Conceived Mother of God."

Therefore, let us acclaim HER as superhuman and the one who is even MORE to be acclaimed, revered, prayed to, venerated, etc.

We can discuss the Great-Grandmother of God, and the one who made possible the one who made possible the one who made possible...in another thread.

MoreCoffee · Sep 18, 2014

It is inspired scripture that tells us that all generations will call Mary blessed. It is a post in this thread that suggests superhumanity for Mary's mother. Clearly the post in this thread does not reflect the teaching of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.

Albion · Sep 18, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
It is inspired scripture that tells us that all generations will call Mary blessed.

All generations HAVE called her blessed. Of course, not all generations have also called her the Mother of all mankind, co-redeemer of the world, dispenser of all graces, ever-virgin, the Immaculate Conception, Queen of the May, and so on.

It seems a shame that all Christians can't live with the Biblical approach to this (i.e. calling her "blessed")?

MoreCoffee · Sep 18, 2014

The Catholic Church calls Mary blessed. That is enough for me.

Cappadocious · Sep 18, 2014

Lion King said:
For those who say Yes, are you guys actually advocating the idea that Gods whole plan of redemption hinged on a single human beings decision?

Since God foreknows all things, "hinge" doesn't sound like the right word, does it?

x141 · Sep 18, 2014

Lion King said:
"Without the Virgin Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ. Without the Virgin Mary there would be no Mother Church."

Yes or No?

What it relates to in picture form of the process (collectively, and individually), yes, which Sarah by Paul was also likened to (as something that spoke to it) in relationship to the Jerusalem above, again saying Then are you that Seed, making the truth of Jesus Christ a testimony we possess.

By Faith Alone · Sep 18, 2014

Acts 19:23-29
23 And the same time there arose no small stir about that way (JESUS as Messiah).
24 For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for ...Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
25 Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs..... ye know that by this craft we have our wealth.......
26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that ...the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.
28 And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, ...Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
29 And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.

The Temple of Diana was like the bank of England. Diana was highly worshiped and money was the order of the day. A lot of money made off the trinkets of a false god and goddess.

By Faith Alone · Sep 18, 2014

football5680 said:
Without the Virgin Mary the human Jesus wouldn't exist, but he is God so he has always existed. The Church was established through the earthly coming of Jesus so without him becoming man through the Virgin Mary there would be no Church.

Here. I will loan you a Sword to give you three "churches" from which to pick:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7842414/

And the Romans catholic church is NOT in view. The priesthood is not for Gentiles and Paul is identified as our apostle being Gentiles ourselves.. Go learn what "church" meaneth, please.

MoreCoffee · Sep 18, 2014

By Faith Alone said:
The Temple of Diana was like the bank of England. Diana was highly worshiped and money was the order of the day. A lot of money made off the trinkets of a false god and goddess.

Kind of like McDonald's isn't it - popular and lots of money made for trinkets.

ViaCrucis · Sep 18, 2014

Albion said:
Without Mary's mother, St. Anne, "there would be no co-redeemer of the world, dispenser of all graces, ever-virgin, bodily Assumed, Immaculately Conceived Mother of God."

Therefore, let us acclaim HER as superhuman and the one who is even MORE to be acclaimed, revered, prayed to, venerated, etc.

We can discuss the Great-Grandmother of God, and the one who made possible the one who made possible the one who made possible...in another thread.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to start speaking about Sts. Anne and Joachim, or any of the Lord's ancestors--Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Jesse, David, etc--and make the same kind of statement.

I don't think it is required that we indulge in hyperdulia in order to confess the sovereign and providential plan of God in history which includes all these people, from the ancient and holy patriarchs all the way to the blessed virgin mother of our Lord.

-CryptoLutheran

miamited · Sep 18, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Please accept my apologies for sloppy English. Mary is blessed by God and Catholics affirm her state as blessed. This was my meaning even though my words were rather sloppy.

Hi MC,

Agreed! Mary was blessed of God. Of all the women who have ever lived, none have been so greatly blessed. I agree with that.

However, as to the rest; that she is the 'mother' of the church, or the 'mother' of God or that she intercedes on behalf of anyone, I stand adamantly opposed. The Scriptures are clear, Jesus is the only intercessor between God and man. Mary has gone the way of all the rest of those who have died believing in the Christ. She was blessed of God in her life. Daniel was blessed of God in his life. Isaiah, Elijah, Ruth and Esther were all blessed of God in their lives. John the Baptist was blessed of God in his life. Paul and Peter and John and Phillip and all the rest of the first apostles were blessed of God in their lives. Mary stands along side all of them in having been blessed of God. Chosen specifically by Him to do their part in the unfolding of the great and wonderful plan of God.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

barryatlake · Sep 18, 2014

Luke 1:35 - the child will be called holy, the "Son of God." Mary is the Mother of the Son of God, or the Mother of God (the "Theotokos").

Lion King · Sep 18, 2014

Knee V said:
Nobody in this thread said anything of the sort.

Knee V meet InnerPhyre.

InnerPhyre said:
Because of Eve's disobedience all men died. Because of Mary's obedience, all men live. Who is more worthy of a title?

Lion King · Sep 18, 2014

football5680 said:
Without the Virgin Mary the human Jesus wouldn't exist, but he is God so he has always existed. The Church was established through the earthly coming of Jesus so without him becoming man through the Virgin Mary there would be no Church.

So, our salvation was dependant on Mary?

Lion King · Sep 18, 2014

Cappadocious said:
Since God foreknows all things, "hinge" doesn't sound like the right word, does it?

"Without Jesus Christ there would be no salvation. Without Jesus Christ there would be no Church."

Therefore our salvation HINGES on Jesus Christ.

Does "hinge" work there?

Knee V · Sep 18, 2014

Lion King said:
Knee V meet InnerPhyre.

Yes, we've met. And he said nothing about God's plan "hinging" on human actions.

Lion King · Sep 18, 2014

Knee V said:
Yes, we've met. And he said nothing about God's plan "hinging" on human actions.

I will quote once more:

InnerPhyre said:
Because of Mary's obedience, all men live.

Doesn't that statement "scare" you, even a little bit?

Because of God, all men live.
Because of Jesus Christ obedience, all men live.

Because of Mary's obedience, all men live.

Something about that doesn't seem right to me. I mean, why give that kind of glory to a mere servant when all glory should go to God alone?

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building." 1 Corinthians 3:5-9

Restoresmysoul · Sep 18, 2014

It scares me. I just don't understand it.

Do you agree with this statement?

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It's phonetic.

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Repentance works.

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Ted

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Veni, vidi, vici

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It's phonetic.

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