Do creationists critically examine their own ideas (re: creationism)?

dad · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Yeah, you're still not actually providing anything.

We can't all provide the depth and research that goes into your whiny little spam posts I guess

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

dad said:
We can't all provide the depth and research that goes into your whiny little spam posts I guess

Still incapable of producing evidence to support your position, I see...

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
A person's subjective experience is not valid evidence for anything

You can't even consider the concept of "evidence" without subjective experience...your thoughts are subjective experience...the evidence is your action.

Kylie said:
Valid evidence needs to be tested and it needs to withstand that testing

I am valid evidence and by His grace and workmanship...I withstand.

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
The fact that a holy text says that others will disagree doesn't mean that the rest of it is true.

What will it take for you to believe that the rest is true?

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Again, I ask how the Bible can be tested.

In every way your existence can be tested now and centuries from now.

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
You can't even consider the concept of "evidence" without subjective experience...your thoughts are subjective experience...the evidence is your action.

I don't know what you think I'm talking about, but we obviously aren't on the same page.

I can find evidence that my car is in my driveway. I can conduct tests to see if the car is there. Someone else can go and do those same tests, or they can conduct other tests. They will also come to the same conclusion.

Having multiple people repeat and confirm results removes any subjective bias that may exist. The more people do the tests, the more different ways they conduct tests, the better any bias is removed.

This is not a difficult concept to understand.

I am valid evidence and by His grace and workmanship...I withstand.

Again, you are obviously not thinking of evidence the same way I am. There is no way for someone else to repeat your experiences.

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
What will it take for you to believe that the rest is true?

Ideally, each claim that is made should be tested. If the claim contradicts some information we already have, then that claim must be tested to a much greater degree.

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

SelfSim said:
Those (ie: the Bible's meanings) are not objectively testable though .. not when the tenets are beliefs, that is.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
In every way your existence can be tested now and centuries from now.

Again, this is not an answer.

Give me a specific test that I can do.

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

Seems to me that SelfSim is saying that beliefs are subjective and therefore can't be tested in any objective way. And without some objective verification, there's no way to show that a subjective belief has any relation to reality.

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Ideally, each claim that is made should be tested. If the claim contradicts some information we already have, then that claim must be tested to a much greater degree.

Is that why you're here...to conduct this research? Information who already has? Are you ready to conduct the tests?

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Again, you are obviously not thinking of evidence the same way I am. There is no way for someone else to repeat your experiences.

But there is Somebody else.

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Again, this is not an answer.

Give me a specific test that I can do.

Use your imagination...how would you test for the existence of anything...it's not hard...you probably have some of the materials on hand...

*I know, Google "The Bible".

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
Is that why you're here...to conduct this research? Information who already has? Are you ready to conduct the tests?

Why on earth would you think I would come to a Christian discussion forum to conduct objective research into the nature of reality?

I honestly don't understand how you are not getting the point I am trying to make. Let me try to make it simple.

You say the Bible describes reality.
You give me a specific example of something the Bible says about reality.
I put that claim to the test by looking for evidence from reality that supports this claim. This evidence must be something that someone else can go and find for themselves.
If the evidence is found, then that supports the Biblical claim.
If the evidence is not found, that suggests that the Biblical claim is wrong.
If the Biblical claim says that evidence from reality is wrong, then the Biblical claim is wrong.

Now, would you care to give me a specific claim made by the Bible and describe how we might test that claim in an objective manner? This is not a difficult request.

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
But there is Somebody else.

And who is this person? (And why didn't you include that information in your reply?)

SelfSim · Jun 15, 2019

dad said:
Why would any belief be stated in a way ... science could deal with??

To broaden collective human understanding ... (as opposed to being confined by having to defer to someone else's beliefs in authoritarianism?)

dad said:
Science is like a dead ant, and God's real science is like a trillion universes.

I notice you use science's words there: 'ant' and 'universes'.
At least I know clearly what those terms mean .. whereas you couldn't without science.

In fact, you couldn't even communicate with me without that thing in front of you called a computer!

Kylie · Jun 15, 2019

Tone said:
Use your imagination...how would you test for the existence of anything...it's not hard...you probably have some of the materials on hand...

*I know, Google "The Bible".

You seem to not understand the concept of "specific."

Tell me a specific test that we can do to test anything in the Bible.

Tone · Jun 15, 2019

Kylie said:
Seems to me that SelfSim is saying that beliefs are subjective and therefore can't be tested in any objective way. And without some objective verification, there's no way to show that a subjective belief has any relation to reality.

So, a hypothesis (belief) is subjective and therefore can't be tested in any objective way (scientific method). And without some scientific method, there's no way to show that a hypothesis has any relation to reality.

Is that ^ another way of saying it?

St. Helens · Jun 15, 2019

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Do creationists critically examine their own ideas (re: creationism)?

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