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I would say that Satan did not merely change form, but he actually possessed an actual real serpent. For the serpent is punished by God with a curse like description that we can see in real serpents today. The serpent is listed among the other cattle and the beasts. If this was merely Satan appearing to be a serpent, then why is God punishing serpents?
To pretend that eating is the same meaning as to accidentally get your tongue dusty from smelling it with a special organ is fruitless and misleading.To pretend that the snake's tongue is not constantly licking up dust, is to deny what your eyes can plainly see, and what is scientifically observed; in other words, it is blindness, and wilful in this case.
Im not certain that God punished all serpents just like I don’t believe God punished all mankind for Adam’s sin. I believe that was a metaphor of satan’s punishment that he would be forever fallen and man striking his head refers to Christ striking his head before throwing him into eternal hell fire.
Evolutionists believe in fish with feet, so....
The problem with your opinion of Satan possessing the serpent, is that John identifies Satan as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so the idea of Satan possessing a snake is based on eisegesis rather than exegesis.I believe Satan possessed or influenced the serpent, but the serpent is not a code word for Satan (with no actual real serpent present).
In fact, the idea that serpent is a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present) does not add up with what we read in the Bible. It would be one thing for Scripture to describe the word serpent as a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present), but it would be another thing altogether to keep up the illusion of this kind of metaphor by God telling us the serpent (Satan) to crawl upon his belly and to eat dust. This is what a snake does today. In addition, Scripture usually has another testimony. If crawling upon his belly and eating dust have some other kinds of spiritual meanings, we should see that in the Bible clearly associated with the devil. But in reality: We learn that a serpent and dust eating is simply referring to a regular animal and not the devil in another place in Scripture.
For Micah 7:17 says,
“They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.”
Furthermore, Genesis 3:1 says,
“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.” (Genesis 3:1).
This means that the serpent here is a created animal here. God says that the serpent was more subtil than any BEAST OF THE FIELD which the Lord God had made. Satan (a fallen angel) is NOT among the beasts of the field which the Lord God had made in the beginning.
Again, Scripture stresses again this is a literal animal in that it places it among the other animals in His creation.
For Genesis 3:14 says,
“And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field;”
For God says that the serpent is cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field. So this surely cannot be a code word for Satan (with no real serpent present) because it lists the serpent in being among the cattle and every beast of the field. If we were to go back to Genesis 1, and look up the day God created the beasts of the field, there is no mention of how the angels were created.
Note: Psalms 104 implies that angels were created on Day 2.
So in conclusion:
What happened is that Satan possessed or influenced the serpent (a real animal) to speak (by some unknown means we are not aware of). The serpent was in part responsible for the fall of Adam and Eve because it cooperated with the devil. This is why the serpent (an actual real animal) was punished.
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die
Bible Highlighter?Ok, so those things you described (including a talking snake, talking donkey etc.) would be miraculous, or, supernatural events then?
The time prophecies and alignments with historical events give us a good indicator where we are in earth's history. You can calculate from creation to present day and it's about six thousand years. The events that were prophesied for the last days are happening. I don't think you can look at the Biblical timeline and come to the conclusion that the earth is older than six thousand years, unless you're inserting time that isn't there in scripture.
In Genesis 3, a serpent, or snake, talks with Eve. In Genesis 3:14-15, God says that the serpent will lose its legs. God doesn’t say that the serpent will no longer be able to talk or no longer have the intelligence to talk. We know there are no talking snakes today. Snakes do not have the vocal cords for speech, or any brain that could carry on a conversation.
All of this fits with the creation story in Genesis 2-3 being a parable for our instruction. It is not history. It doesn’t take place in the real world. The talking snake is a literary device.
For creationists, God did not take the serpent’s voice away, or say that it would lose intelligence to become a dumb animal. If there were talking snakes only six thousand years ago, when many creationists believe the world was created, there should be talking snakes today. How do creationists explain this?
Many creationists have been taught that Eve was tempted by Satan. They have been taught to substitute “Satan” for “snake” or serpent. Yet Genesis says nothing about Satan being in the Garden of Eden. This could be one reason creationists don’t ask when snakes lost their voices, they think of the snake as a manifestation of Satan. Yet Genesis says no such thing. God talks about the serpent as a real animal when it says it will “crawl on its belly,” or lose its legs.
If God didn’t take away the snake’s voice or its intelligence at the Expulsion from Eden, why don’t snakes talk today? It’s something for creationists to think about.
The King James Version does mention devils more often than most modern translation. Even so, the first mention of Satan in the KJV is in I Chronicles.
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
I Chronicles 21:1 KJV
The first mention of devil or devils in the KJV is in Leviticus.
And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after
whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them
throughout their generations. Leviticus 17:7 KJV
There is no mention of Devil or Satan in Eden, or in any other part of Genesis.
The problem with your opinion of Satan possessing the serpent, is that John identifies Satan as the serpent in the book of Revelation, so the idea of Satan possessing a snake is based on eisegesis rather than exegesis.
Revelation 20:2
the serpent being smarter than any beast of the field doesn’t mean that he/it is also a beast of the feast or a wild animal.
This also applies to being cursed - you can be cursed more than something else, and not be categorically what you are cursed more than.
You said:Christ also identifies Satan with the serpent here:
John 8:44
Satan is a liar, he is the father of lies, and has been a murderer since the beginning. To be a father of something means to be the origin of something. If you are the father of lies, that means you are the first liar and the source of lies.
now, going back to the beginning - Who is the first liar? The serpent:
Ok, so those things you described (including a talking snake, talking donkey etc.) would be miraculous, or, supernatural events then?
I do wonder about that verse, whether it's meant as some kind of double entendre or left handed compliment that puts the serpent in his place as a created being.the serpent being smarter than any beast of the field doesn’t mean that he/it is also a beast of the feast or a wild animal.
I do wonder about that verse, whether it's meant as some kind of double entendre or left handed compliment that puts the serpent in his place as a created being.
I think you just do not believe in the possiblity of talking animals (Regardless of what verses are presented to you). It is too far out there for you. But the Bible is a book that is full of the miraculous. It takes faith to believe in God's Word. Men also lived for 900 some years back then, too. Is that also outside your realm of possibility, too? See the issue is your acceptance of the text. The Bible does not say that the serpent appeared to talk like a man. We don't know how the serpent was able to communicate or speak with Eve. We just know that the Scriptures say that the serpent spoke with Eve. You either accept the Scriptures and it's many miraculous things or you don't. The choice is yours. Some people do not accept the miracle that Jesus rose from the dead because they don't think it is possible. Is the resurrection a metaphor, too? The Bible warns against turning His word into fables or myths (2 Timothy 4:4). Your not believing Genesis 3 sounds dangerously close to doing that.
It just doesn't sound consistent to me. If one animal speaks literally in one case, then why is it that another animal in a different case was not literally speaking? To me: This seems like a cross reference in Scripture whereby I see two animals speaking in Scripture. I am not looking to make excuses for what is possible or not possible. I know the Bible is a book full of the miraculous. I just read it and believe it. It does not sound impossible to me that a serpent could talk if it was the devil who possessed the serpent. Again, the devil is able to do miracles, too. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 says there is “the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,” and Exodus 7:10-11 says, “Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.”
Side Note:
Granted, there are limitations to what the devil can do (of course). GOD is so much more powerful obviously. GOD's power is unlimited and He holds all things together by the word of His power.
You speak of laws. What laws are you talking about?
Simple. It was a snake possessed by Satan. Demon possession of animals is a must believe for Christians. Jesus sent demons into pigs, remember? I suppose you think that's a parable too?
Bible Highlighter in post #51: “But the Bible is a book that is full of the miraculous.”
Bible Highlighter in post #70: “I know the Bible is a book full of the miraculous.”
You put a lot of stock in miracles and you seem to regard the Bible as a book of miracles. Do you understand that the primary purposes of the Bible is to offer moral instruction and point us to salvation. While miracles have a role in pointing people in the right direction, we should not be obsessed with them.
Miracles are not intended to provide freedom from logic.
I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic.
You said:Bible Highlighter in post #51: “ Men also lived for 900 some years back then, too. Is that also outside your realm of possibility, too?”
I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic. He had studied the Bible thoroughly and became convinced that some of the numbers in the Bible are exaggerations. When the early books of the Bible were composed you honored men by saying that they lived for 900 years.
The swine possessed by demons expelled from “Legion” did not talk. All they did was destroy themselves.
Have you noticed that nowhere in the Bible is there are command not to listen to talking animals? Where is the command: “If an animal talks to you, don’t listen, the animal is possessed by a demon.” I’ve seen no such verse, and that’s probably because a devil speaking through a possessed animal is impossible.
You put a lot of stock in miracles and you seem to regard the Bible as a book of miracles. Do you understand that the primary purposes of the Bible is to offer moral instruction and point us to salvation.
I met a man who was an ultraconservative Christian. You could call him a religious fanatic. He had studied the Bible thoroughly and became convinced that some of the numbers in the Bible are exaggerations. When the early books of the Bible were composed you honored men by saying that they lived for 900 years.
This is false. There are many dragon sightings throughout history.
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